The future of Guild archtops

Squawk

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I figured I'd kick off the archtop area of letstalkguild.com with a general question:

We've been reading a lot about Guild building acoustics in the Tacoma facility. What's happening to archtops? Will we still see X-160s being produced in California - or at all? Or has Fender relegated archtops to their Gretsch line?
 

Walter Broes

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I wonder about that too, and I'd be very interested to hear if anybody knows anything about that. There still are a number of archtops in the pricelist (the X160 seems to be discontinued btw), and I assume they're still being made in Corona, inasfar as any are being shipped.(?)
 

Squawk

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Walter Broes said:
There still are a number of archtops in the pricelist (the X160 seems to be discontinued btw)...

Sorry, Walter - I meant X-150. I wonder if Guild is considering GAD - Guild Archtop Design - models to be made in China. Ever play an Ibanez Artcore? Not shabby. I just bought a new AS73 (like Starfire IV or Gibson ES-335) as I had a good coupon where my new price was below ebay used price. It's not a Starfire, but close - and for the $225 it cost me, it's hard to justify spending 10 times that for a 335. And it has full fingerboard/pegboard binding. No flames on the maple - but how fussy can you get for that money?
 

sfIII

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I posed this question to the FMIC folks at Merlefest last spring... and was told that a decision as to where the future non-acoustic Guilds would be made would be make sometime this summer. Perhaps they were telling what they thought I wanted to hear...
 
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I'm sorry Squawk. There is absolutely no way that an Artcore should even be in the same conversation as a Guild archtop. One is a perfectly nice beginnner's axe, the other is a pro axe.

The pickups on the Artcore's are tinny and thin. There is no acoustic design to them at all. Some feed back terribly, some not. Sure they're cheap. But they sound that way, too. At least compared to a Guild.

I certainly hope Fender never considers sending the archtop production to China (or any other offshore location). I have never played any offshore archtop that even remotely compares to a good Gibson or Guild. And that includes Gretsch. And I have played and owned a LOT -- new and old. Even a top-of-the-line Ibanez Scofield can't compare to a great Gibson 335. I've owned, played, and heard 'em. Sco himself. There is a reason besides the "made in USA" label that they cost more. The materials are better. The wood is properly aged. The electronics are far superior.

Maybe it will increase the value of my Guilds, but I don't really consider that a good thing in the long run. It's really about the viability of our country to make great guitars. I think it would be a shame. And certainly lower our expectations about what really makes a great guitar great.

Again, I'm sorry to be so disparaging about Artcores. But Guild really is pretty top-drawer.
 

dreadnut

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Yeah I sure hope they don't do the GAD thing with the electrics too, I thought it was pretty cheesy of Fender to build them in China and then not even change the logo on the headstock :cry: I've played several GADs, and while it's a pretty nice guitar for the $, it's no Guild as far as I'm concerned...

Having said that, I must say my 98 Korean Dearmond Starfire Special is really sweet. The fit and finish are impeccable, and it plays and sounds great! Really quite comparable to a Guild Starfire, but it weighs more and I'm sure the woods used are of lesser quality. However, it cost about 1/2 the price of a Guild Starfire at the time, and they didn't try to pawn them off as Guilds like they're doing with the GADs.

I'd love to get a Guild Starfire IV orV someday, anyone like to trade me one for my '81 rosewood F-512?
 

Squawk

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MrBonex said:
I'm sorry Squawk. There is absolutely no way that an Artcore should even be in the same conversation as a Guild archtop. One is a perfectly nice beginnner's axe, the other is a pro axe.

The pickups on the Artcore's are tinny and thin. There is no acoustic design to them at all. Some feed back terribly, some not. Sure they're cheap. But they sound that way, too. At least compared to a Guild.

I certainly hope Fender never considers sending the archtop production to China (or any other offshore location). I have never played any offshore archtop that even remotely compares to a good Gibson or Guild. And that includes Gretsch. And I have played and owned a LOT -- new and old. Even a top-of-the-line Ibanez Scofield can't compare to a great Gibson 335. I've owned, played, and heard 'em. Sco himself. There is a reason besides the "made in USA" label that they cost more. The materials are better. The wood is properly aged. The electronics are far superior.

Maybe it will increase the value of my Guilds, but I don't really consider that a good thing in the long run. It's really about the viability of our country to make great guitars. I think it would be a shame. And certainly lower our expectations about what really makes a great guitar great.

Again, I'm sorry to be so disparaging about Artcores. But Guild really is pretty top-drawer.

When I wrote that the AS73 was close to a Starfire, I meant (but didn't write) as a cost-efficient tool - not as a fine instrument. Sorry i didn't make that clear. A problem with ALL guitars - usually ones made in China or Korea, but I had this happen with a USA Gibson (which was replaced with a new one) - is you can get a good one or a bad one. I disagree that the Artcore is only for beginners. I have been playing for 40 years - I played bass professionally in the late '60s - early 70's. I checked the Artcore out because I saw (and heard) two different "older guy" jazz-pop trios use them at professional social functions in the past year or two. There are no feedback problems with my specific AS73, and the range of sound is fine for your average gig. I will say that when I bought it, the first one had malfunctioning electronics. And my AS73 stays in tune for hours, and once I re-did the setup, I was able to achieve perfect intonation as well as comfortable low action. It's not the best wood or best looking guitar, but why take a guitar 5 - 10 times that price to a gig to be subject to smoke, potential damage, etc.? And I do agree with you about Gretsch - my first "real" guitar was a mid-60's Gretsch Double Annie (which I still have) - I tried a new one recently (made in Japan), and there's no comparison to my 40 year old gem. And these cost about $1,800 - no value whatsoever. Having said that, I will put my Epiphone Elite Riviera up against a newer Gibson ES335 anyday. It was crafted in Japan with US parts - probably more US parts than my Guild-Westerly Blues 90. And yes, the Riviera does run rings around the Artcore, but it should as it costs much more.
 

Charlie Vegas

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Squawk said:
my first "real" guitar was a mid-60's Gretsch Double Annie (which I still have) - I tried a new one recently (made in Japan), and there's no comparison to my 40 year old gem. Having said that, I will put my Epiphone Elite Riviera up against a newer Gibson ES335 anyday. It was crafted in Japan with US parts
Funny you like your Elite Riviera but not the Fender Anni when they were most likely made side by side in the same Japanese factory.

I've played a few Artcores and wasn't impressed. For cheap guitars, I liked the Korean DeArmonds much better.
 

Squawk

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Charlie Vegas said:
Squawk said:
my first "real" guitar was a mid-60's Gretsch Double Annie (which I still have) - I tried a new one recently (made in Japan), and there's no comparison to my 40 year old gem. Having said that, I will put my Epiphone Elite Riviera up against a newer Gibson ES335 anyday. It was crafted in Japan with US parts
Funny you like your Elite Riviera but not the Fender Anni when they were most likely made side by side in the same Japanese factory.

I've played a few Artcores and wasn't impressed. For cheap guitars, I liked the Korean DeArmonds much better.

Keep in mind I'm comparing the new Anni to a Brooklyn-made one. The unique Gretsch parts and design were not like the original, though overall quality beat the Artcore - and should for 6+ times the price. I tried the newer anni before the Fender take-over - not that it should make a difference as the factory in Japan was probably still the same. The engineering of the Riviera, IMHO, just works better. The combination of the semi-solid with a frequensator could be the reason I like it better than a Gibson 335.
 
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