Hoboken Conversions

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A couple of years ago, I wanted another F112. My '73 is fabulous - doesn't get any better than that remarkable bit of Westerly perfection. I bought sight-unseen a '69 Hoboken F112...thinking, I suppose, 'how different can they be?'

Well, they are VERY different - that's not bad - just different. The Hoboken is based more on the F30 shape with a wide, bright, open sounds. The Westerly is warmer and smoother, better defined and with a ring 'til next Monday quality. I've used both live and in the studio and they have wonderfully varied sounds. But the Westerly is much better for me.

In fact, while I'm waiting to find another GF25 to use on the road in open D - my luthier - the wonderful Holger Notzel - suggested I string up the Hoboken as a 6-string to use since I wasn't really spending any time with it as a 12. It's...different there, too. Wide-open, leaning more to the bright side without much bass.

Any suggestions on how to darken the sound some? I'm using medium guage (54-13) strings (80-20) and the sound, while better, still has a 'blatty' quality to it. Any suggestions will be appreciated and I'll be taking it back to Holger soon for some adjustments. dbs

Dudley-Brian Smith
Smithfield Fair
Westerly 1975 G37
Westerly 1987 GF25
Westerly 1988 GF25
Westerly 1973 F112
Westerly 1979 B50
Hoboken 1969 F112

Guild - breakfast of champions!
 
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A couple of years ago, I wanted another F112. My '73 is fabulous - doesn't get any better than that remarkable bit of Westerly perfection. I bought sight-unseen a '69 Hoboken F112...thinking, I suppose, 'how different can they be?'

Well, they are VERY different - that's not bad - just different. The Hoboken is based more on the F30 shape with a wide, bright, open sounds. The Westerly is warmer and smoother, better defined and with a ring 'til next Monday quality. I've used both live and in the studio and they have wonderfully varied sounds. But the Westerly is much better for me.

In fact, while I'm waiting to find another GF25 to use on the road in open D - my luthier - the wonderful Holger Notzel - suggested I string up the Hoboken as a 6-string to use since I wasn't really spending any time with it as a 12. It's...different there, too. Wide-open, leaning more to the bright side without much bass.

Any suggestions on how to darken the sound some? I'm using medium guage (54-13) strings (80-20) and the sound, while better, still has a 'blatty' quality to it. Any suggestions will be appreciated and I'll be taking it back to Holger soon for some adjustments. dbs

Dudley-Brian Smith
Smithfield Fair
Westerly 1975 G37
Westerly 1987 GF25
Westerly 1988 GF25
Westerly 1973 F112
Westerly 1979 B50
Hoboken 1969 F112

Guild - breakfast of champions!
 

Mr. P ~

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Having been an Audio Engineer for a number of years I have trouble with the subjective terms like "Darken".

I will tell you this, I have been using John Pearse Medium Phosphor Bronze string exclusively for at least 25 years (since they came on the market).
No guitar sounds right without them to me.

I consider the sound to be a "Hard" sound that gives more edge. They give more bass on the low E string, but also give more treble on the low string as well. May not be at all what you want.....but I think John Pearse should be cannonized!!!
:wink:
 

Mr. P ~

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Having been an Audio Engineer for a number of years I have trouble with the subjective terms like "Darken".

I will tell you this, I have been using John Pearse Medium Phosphor Bronze string exclusively for at least 25 years (since they came on the market).
No guitar sounds right without them to me.

I consider the sound to be a "Hard" sound that gives more edge. They give more bass on the low E string, but also give more treble on the low string as well. May not be at all what you want.....but I think John Pearse should be cannonized!!!
:wink:
 
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Darkness

Mr. P -- You're right about John Pearce strings - though I've often had trouble finding a steady supply. A few years back, I went to purchasing bulk strings and they are Martin Mediums 80/20. But when we're on the road and I find them - I purchase packets of Pearce to put aside for those moments when I can really enjoy them. I'll certainly try a set on the Hoboken. However, I am wondering about broadening the low end and some of the low mids on the guitar. Little things like changing plastic bridge pins for ebony and replacing saddle & nut with bone all help and have all been accomplished. However, I'm hoping for a more permanent solution - of which there may be none. This guitar just has one of those big, wide-open and trebly American west sounds and my Westerly (with wider hips, slightly deeper depth and larger soundhole) just has one of those fat, solid, well-balanced "warm" sounds. I know they are inspecific terms, but then, as a former engineer/producer and long time arranger, I use the vernacular - it's what more people can grasp - while you and I would consider replacing a Shure with a Neumann. Off to purchase some stings now....dbs

Dudley-Brian Smith
When you care enough...Guild - made by elves in hollow Westerly trees.
 
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Darkness

Mr. P -- You're right about John Pearce strings - though I've often had trouble finding a steady supply. A few years back, I went to purchasing bulk strings and they are Martin Mediums 80/20. But when we're on the road and I find them - I purchase packets of Pearce to put aside for those moments when I can really enjoy them. I'll certainly try a set on the Hoboken. However, I am wondering about broadening the low end and some of the low mids on the guitar. Little things like changing plastic bridge pins for ebony and replacing saddle & nut with bone all help and have all been accomplished. However, I'm hoping for a more permanent solution - of which there may be none. This guitar just has one of those big, wide-open and trebly American west sounds and my Westerly (with wider hips, slightly deeper depth and larger soundhole) just has one of those fat, solid, well-balanced "warm" sounds. I know they are inspecific terms, but then, as a former engineer/producer and long time arranger, I use the vernacular - it's what more people can grasp - while you and I would consider replacing a Shure with a Neumann. Off to purchase some stings now....dbs

Dudley-Brian Smith
When you care enough...Guild - made by elves in hollow Westerly trees.
 

Mr. P ~

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Sounds like a journey to the best sound for the box.

I hope there is no restriction on plugging a vendor!!

I get my strings mail order from
http://www.stringsandbeyond.com/guitarpicks.html

The first time I bought from him, I got a pack of gormet coffee back with my order.

Haggis....by brothers kats name!!
I was not able to get any Haggis on my short ten day trip to Scotland. I was working in Glenrothes, and I stayed at the Balbirnie House in Markinch. Awfully good food and drink there.
 

Mr. P ~

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Sounds like a journey to the best sound for the box.

I hope there is no restriction on plugging a vendor!!

I get my strings mail order from
http://www.stringsandbeyond.com/guitarpicks.html

The first time I bought from him, I got a pack of gormet coffee back with my order.

Haggis....by brothers kats name!!
I was not able to get any Haggis on my short ten day trip to Scotland. I was working in Glenrothes, and I stayed at the Balbirnie House in Markinch. Awfully good food and drink there.
 

dklsplace

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Believe it or not, my local Guitar Center actually had John Pearse strings in stock last time I was there. Wonder if the fact that I'd asked for them on previous visits had anything to do with it? :lol: Anyway...I put them on my JF-30 & am very pleased!

Just a thought on darkening your tone. I've never seen it on acoustic guitars before so it may end up being a custom thing with your luthier. I bet an ebony saddle would pull some of the bone "sparkle" out & still keep plenty of warmth & character. Danelectro used simple acoustic-like rosewood saddles on electric guitars, so why not?

....would that I could afford to replace my AKG's with Nuemann. :?
 

dklsplace

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Believe it or not, my local Guitar Center actually had John Pearse strings in stock last time I was there. Wonder if the fact that I'd asked for them on previous visits had anything to do with it? :lol: Anyway...I put them on my JF-30 & am very pleased!

Just a thought on darkening your tone. I've never seen it on acoustic guitars before so it may end up being a custom thing with your luthier. I bet an ebony saddle would pull some of the bone "sparkle" out & still keep plenty of warmth & character. Danelectro used simple acoustic-like rosewood saddles on electric guitars, so why not?

....would that I could afford to replace my AKG's with Nuemann. :?
 
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John P

Wish I could say the same. I used to use John Pearce strings exclusively, but began to find problems with stores able to get them or (great thing for John Pearce Strings) keep them in stock. We're on the road a lot - Boulder to Birmingham as the song says - and I just find a lot of stores without them. So, several years back - because I change all of my strings quite often when on the road - I went to purchasing bulk strings - unwrapped and went with a Dallas-based company called String This - now in Arkansas. Their basic bulk strings are Martins - while not my favorite, are good-sounding, durable strings. I can get a couple of tubes and then I don't have to worry about the time limitations for running down strings in unfamiliar towns. As we play a great deal of festivals and often fly in, our time is severely limited anyway. But, when I do get a chance to purchase them, I do and love them. But, again, as I said, I change strings so often that they aren't on there a great length of time and then are pretty well played out. The Martins are 54-13 in an 80/20 bronze and so I use those on the road and enjoy the John Pearce when we're in the studio or sitting out a bit. Of course, we based in Baton Rouge, Louisiana - which is a cultural wormhole in the universe - NOT a music town. Best to all this day.

Dudley-Brian Smith
Smithfield Fair
 
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John P

Wish I could say the same. I used to use John Pearce strings exclusively, but began to find problems with stores able to get them or (great thing for John Pearce Strings) keep them in stock. We're on the road a lot - Boulder to Birmingham as the song says - and I just find a lot of stores without them. So, several years back - because I change all of my strings quite often when on the road - I went to purchasing bulk strings - unwrapped and went with a Dallas-based company called String This - now in Arkansas. Their basic bulk strings are Martins - while not my favorite, are good-sounding, durable strings. I can get a couple of tubes and then I don't have to worry about the time limitations for running down strings in unfamiliar towns. As we play a great deal of festivals and often fly in, our time is severely limited anyway. But, when I do get a chance to purchase them, I do and love them. But, again, as I said, I change strings so often that they aren't on there a great length of time and then are pretty well played out. The Martins are 54-13 in an 80/20 bronze and so I use those on the road and enjoy the John Pearce when we're in the studio or sitting out a bit. Of course, we based in Baton Rouge, Louisiana - which is a cultural wormhole in the universe - NOT a music town. Best to all this day.

Dudley-Brian Smith
Smithfield Fair
 

Darryl Hattenhauer

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Regarding Pearse PB, would 11s be anything like 13s? I like to minimize stress on my guitars, and generally i think 10s sound and feel bad, but 11s are tolerable. I'm not a pro, don't play out, so for me sacrificing some volume and tone is ok if it means being able to leave my heirs a guitar instead of kindling.
 

Darryl Hattenhauer

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Regarding Pearse PB, would 11s be anything like 13s? I like to minimize stress on my guitars, and generally i think 10s sound and feel bad, but 11s are tolerable. I'm not a pro, don't play out, so for me sacrificing some volume and tone is ok if it means being able to leave my heirs a guitar instead of kindling.
 
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Sacrificial tones

Darryl - Personally, I've grown over the 35+ years of guitar playing into what would be termed a "stylist". That is, I have a style that suits me and I work within it, but that style of playing also defines me and my music. That said, like Richie Havens I'm a "frustrated drummer" when it comes to guitar playing. My selection of Guilds was for the extraordinary tones possible from them and the extreme balance when played hard rhythmically, while not sacrificing tone, presence and articulation. The arched backs I so love just projects the sound out with clarity and accuracy. I've said this before in other posts, but when Smithfield Fair arrives at a festival or concert setting and the house sound engineer comes up and asks that age-old question, "How do you want your guitar to sound?" I answer with, 'listen' and play a bit for him. 'That's how it should sound out front.' (I'm a bit of a purist with my Guilds and only use internally-mounted Shure SM-11 microphones with no processing or signal manipulation.)

Part of that style includes that spellbinding ring and sustain that only comes (for me) from a Guild with slightly higher action, medium guage strings in open tuning. It's all about the harmonic ring and drone in open tuning. I just can't get that quite as effectively with lighter strings on - though my wife and our lead guitarist always use light gauge strings. Occasionally, I'll pick up someone else's Guild with light strings on and play it and it still sounds great. But I'm always left thinking I could coax more tone out of the box with heavier strings.

That said - it's all what you are looking for. I know some who never put anything but extra-light strings on their guitars and are perfectly happy with that. One has to satisfy one's own ears....

But then, again, I'm also a long-time bagpiper and perhaps my hearing isn't what it used to be. Ha! Best to you....

Dudley-Brian Smith
Smithfield Fair
 
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Sacrificial tones

Darryl - Personally, I've grown over the 35+ years of guitar playing into what would be termed a "stylist". That is, I have a style that suits me and I work within it, but that style of playing also defines me and my music. That said, like Richie Havens I'm a "frustrated drummer" when it comes to guitar playing. My selection of Guilds was for the extraordinary tones possible from them and the extreme balance when played hard rhythmically, while not sacrificing tone, presence and articulation. The arched backs I so love just projects the sound out with clarity and accuracy. I've said this before in other posts, but when Smithfield Fair arrives at a festival or concert setting and the house sound engineer comes up and asks that age-old question, "How do you want your guitar to sound?" I answer with, 'listen' and play a bit for him. 'That's how it should sound out front.' (I'm a bit of a purist with my Guilds and only use internally-mounted Shure SM-11 microphones with no processing or signal manipulation.)

Part of that style includes that spellbinding ring and sustain that only comes (for me) from a Guild with slightly higher action, medium guage strings in open tuning. It's all about the harmonic ring and drone in open tuning. I just can't get that quite as effectively with lighter strings on - though my wife and our lead guitarist always use light gauge strings. Occasionally, I'll pick up someone else's Guild with light strings on and play it and it still sounds great. But I'm always left thinking I could coax more tone out of the box with heavier strings.

That said - it's all what you are looking for. I know some who never put anything but extra-light strings on their guitars and are perfectly happy with that. One has to satisfy one's own ears....

But then, again, I'm also a long-time bagpiper and perhaps my hearing isn't what it used to be. Ha! Best to you....

Dudley-Brian Smith
Smithfield Fair
 
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