when did guild switch to poly?

dw

Junior Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2005
Messages
22
Reaction score
0
Does anyone (Hans) know when they made the switch from lacquer to poly?
 

hansmoust

Enlightened Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Messages
9,201
Reaction score
3,505
Location
Netherlands
dw said:
Does anyone (Hans) know when they made the switch from lacquer to poly?

Hi dw,

There's no straight answer here. They switched back and forth several times.

Hans
 

HoboKen

Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2005
Messages
443
Reaction score
0
Location
Central PA
Word I heard is that CA banned lacquer use for environmental reasons.
Thus the Guild move from Corna, CA to Tacoma, WA to continue using lacquer on the better Guilds. Though it must be said the use of Poly has come a long way of late. No more thick tone-killing finishes. They found a way to put a super thin poly finish on guitars now. A new guitar in lacquer will sond about the same as in poly. In 20 to 30 years the poly will still be attached to the wood....thus no change in tone as it ages. The lacquer will start to come away from the wood and tone will improve with age for this reason. This is why a guitar with no finish sounds better than the same guitar witha finish. Older lacquer finished guitars just have less attached finish allowing the wood to vibrate more. If you re-finish an old lacquer finished guitar you are back to square one. If you want to have a killer tone instrument, get it without any finsih to start with
 

jazzman

Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2005
Messages
156
Reaction score
0
Actually CA hasn't banned Nitrocellulose lacquer 100%, but there are STRICT regulations. The big problem with it is that they want the VOC levels down so to do that you have to have such a low solids content in the lacquer that it just isn't cost effective to do that.
From what I understand, Fender's moving Guild to tacoma has nothing to do with the lacquer issue (since Fender has an AMAZING filtration system that allows them to spray nitro) it's all about space. That's the reason that the electrics were discontinued was that they just didn't have enough space in corona to make all the fender stuff AND the guild stuff too. The Guild rep called the store where I work and told our VP that they are planning on reintroducing the bluesbirds soon and we've already placed an advanced order for them. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

In regards to the poly versus Nitro finishes, yes there is some mechanical adhesion going on there ( the finish has to bond to something after all) however there are many reasons why the tone of a guitar changes over time (depending on what type of guitar we're talkin' bout here.)
NitroCellulose lacquer on it's own is quite brittle, and has a poor build characteristic. It's the plasticizers (sp?) that make it more flexible etc. Over time the plasticizers evaporate out of the finish leaving it brittle and some shrinking occurs. It's still bonded to the wood but since it's a bit thinner and more brittle it's easier to chip off.
Personally I would never get a guitar with just an oil finish or no finish at all because you have ZERO protection on the wood. That's probably the biggest reason to finish your guitar (to protect the wood) all that moisture absorption and loss and your guitar would warp and twist etc.
I really hope I'm not coming off like a jerk or anything, as my intent is not to sound like a know-it-all. Just thought I'd post my opinion on the matter.
Cheers!
Bob Nelson
 

HoboKen

Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2005
Messages
443
Reaction score
0
Location
Central PA
Thanks Bob....

My suggestion on not having a finish on a guitar was more in theory for the best possible tone. In reality, I agree that a finish is needed for all the reasons you list.
 

santfe

Junior Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2005
Messages
18
Reaction score
0
"Personally I would never get a guitar with just an oil finish or no finish at all because you have ZERO protection on the wood. That's probably the biggest reason to finish your guitar (to protect the wood) all that moisture absorption and loss and your guitar would warp and twist etc."

But the interiors of most guitars aren't finished, right? So there already exists a ready path for moisture to pass in and out of the wood.

It's really on there for cosmetic reasons. The Epiphone John Lennon Revolution Casino had only the lightest of lacquer coatings (supposedly like Lennon's own, which he sanded down himself). But I've seen one of those, and if you try to rub out a surface mark, you end up with a shiny spot on an otherwise matte-finished guitar. Not a good idea.
 
Top