D-25

OK, now that I've posted about my silly case dilemma, I'll post about the wonderful guitar I scored on Ebay & that arrived about 10 days ago.

It's a '92 Westerly made D-25 NT. The sides are a darker color than I'm used to seeing in the mahogany on my Martins. I'm having some issues keeping it in tune, and it was probably stored away in an attick for a good part of the past 10 years because it has a mildewy smell coming from the soundhole.

Aside from those minor issues, I'm LOVING this guitar. Wow. Such tone, mojo & character. Sounds great when plucked by my sloppy fingers and when strummed harder. Taking her to a local ace luthier later this week for a proper set up, recommendations on the tuning issues & to install a thinline pick up. I cannot even imagine the good times I'll have thereafter.

I'd like to say "thanks" to the collective enthusiasm of this board. I lurked here for a while before finally signing on, but it was largely because of your love of these guitars that I went after a Westerly made Guild. As an aside, I hope the DV-52 thread stops very soon or I might do something I really cannot afford to do at this point!

That's a fine choice. Welcome aboard.

Well, I'm doing some very similar thinking. Buying a guitar for the first time in a long time, and I'll tell you, there's this mental image of a Guild guitar that's just very strong (as a cool acoustic). So I've been looking at the eBAy D-25s, and I'll tell you, I'm just scared to buy off eBay, since I might well be buying junk. I'm no luthier. But your story is an encouraging one! Perhaps I should just buy a new guitar, and think of getting a mahogany top D-25 down the road.

Siwash said:

I'm just scared to buy off eBay, since I might well be buying junk.

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From my own experience (I've traded about 26 guitars through eBay in the last few years), you need to have confidence in 4 things for a sucessful transaction;

• 1: the quality of the instrument - if you're buying a guitar that has a good reputation (for me, that means Guild), and if you've done your reearch about the models and relative prices, then you should be reasonably confident, assuming full disclosure from the seller, you'll get predictable value. I don't think that a D-25 from a particular period at Guild is likely to be TOO dramatically different from another D-25 at the same period, although of course there are subtle and not-so-subtle differences that you'll only know with a guitar in hand. Get hold of Hans Moust's wonderful book, and you'll know all there is to know about Guilds up to 1977, survey the posts on this board and on Fender Forum - Guilds and you'll get a ton of more recent info.
  
  2: the quality of the seller - feedback does tell tales. More important (for me) is the quality of conversation I set up with every seller. I've bought only one eBay guitar without at least some chatter with the seller, and that was not a good move. Ask lots of questions, ask for more photos, inquire about eveything that's not disclosed in the listing - in addition to the information, you'll rapidly get a sense of the kind of person you're dealing with. Like any business deal, that's the single most valuable piece of information.
  
  3: use Paypal for your transaction. If you get completely burned, you'll get almost all your money back. It works.
  
  4: be sure that you have an approval period and right to return if not satisfactory. You'll have to eat shipping both ways, so there's some risk there for sure. Don't allow sellers to give you "returns OK if the item is different from the listing" - all listings and write-ups are to some degree subjective, and an "invisible ding" to some is a major flaw to others, a "tiny crack in the finish" can turn out to be a major structural flaw that requires immediate repair, etc. The return policy needs to be clear - if you don't like it, you get to send it back. A savvy seller will also ask you to refund his/her eBay listing fee, but that's small potatoes.

I honestly believe that if you keep to these simple rules you have an extremely good chance of making a highly satisfactory deal. I've been truly burned only once (no conversation with the seller, and no shipment at all, see Paypal comments above). I know I'm sticking my neck out here, and that many of the folks on this board categorically refuse to buy a guitar unless they have a chance to play it. I completely understand that philosophy. On the other hand, because eBay does have some real and some perceived risks, the average prices on eBay are substantially lower than they are in a retail store.

I'm sure there will be other comments, and not all in agreement. However you decide to get your first Guild, I wish you the best of success.

john_kidder said:

Siwash said:

I'm just scared to buy off eBay, since I might well be buying junk.

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3: use Paypal for your transaction. If you get completely burned, you'll get almost all your money back. It works.

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I am not sure that's completely true as I had to recently contact PayPal about that and they said it is only covered up to x amount (forgot what it was but it was more like $200 or $500). It is only covered up to full amount if the seller pays for a status called PayPal Guaranteed or something like that. However even though in this case they didn't cover full amount they do have a process to help you arbitrate sort of.

The other thing is sometimes the quality of the instrument is good, the seller is honest, you use paypal - but then the seller doesn't know how to send a guitar and you get it and it's been damaged. Sure you pay for insurance in shipping but what you wanted was a nice guitar - not paperwork.

Please don't get me wrong - I am not writing to discourage - I fully am an ebay addict and buy all the time - it's not consistent the experience but there is due diligence. For example - make sure they don't leave a capo in the box - in fact if it's acoustic electric - take the battery out - these things bounce around freely and do a number on the surfaces of your guitar - as it did on a Guild I bought. He also had no clue on PayPal and sat there forever until I frantically tried to get ahold of him and he said he checked the mail every day looking for his money. I had to walk him through Paypal and ebay processes.

Right you are about Paypal - their arbitration does work, but only if the seller has a verified account.

I forgot to add that I also send detailed packing instructions - or send sellers to Archtop.com Shipping Instructions. They even use a Guild X-700 in their photographic instuctions, which is fairly cool.

Diff in Guild depending on where they are made?

john_kidder said:

Right you are about Paypal - their arbitration does work, but only if the seller has a verified account.

I forgot to add that I also send detailed packing instructions - or send sellers to Archtop.com Shipping Instructions. They even use a Guild X-700 in their photographic instuctions, which is fairly cool.

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John - I just noticed your collection of Guilds in your signature. You go old school way back. Do you find a difference between the Hobokens and the Westerly's. I know alot of people feel there is a diff between the Westerly's and the Corona's.

Re: Diff in Guild depending on where they are made?

WorksInTheory said:

John - I just noticed your collection of Guilds in your signature. You go old school way back. Do you find a difference between the Hobokens and the Westerly's. I know alot of people feel there is a diff between the Westerly's and the Corona's.

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I don't think I'm actually qualified to comment on this. I've got some guitars from all these years, for sure, but they're really very different beasts. It's just not possible to compare a New York jazz box made in the first years with a (then bottom-of-the-line) Hoboken "Economy M-20" with a classical Mark IV with a (then cream-of-the-crop) Westerly GF-60R. And I'm no expert - there are lots of folks on this board with clearly better ears and better fingers than me, and with much broader experience.

That said, I've worked my way though a fair number of Guilds over the last few years - the Hobokens, although there are of course far fewer of them, somehow please me more aesthetically - they feel more like me. But I'm such a fan of the Gruhn-era Westerly Guilds that they just overshadow all others. And, to quite everybody's favourite, Charlton Heston, "they'll have to pry my old New York jazzer out of my cold dead fingers".

Not much help, I'm afraid, but there you are.

I owned a D-25 that I bought in the late 70's. I can't say that I was satisfied with it as I found the sound to be flat with poor projection. I had it set up properly but was later told that the Guild's at that time had laminated tops. I could see the grain run down into the edge of the sound hole but was not sure that I could tell if it was laminated on another piece of wood since the top was stained Cherry Red.

I started playing many years before (in the early 60's) on my brother Gibson LG-2 until I warped the neck so bad that I finally moved up into my first Semi solid electric - an Original Epiphone Riviera. The Guild D-25 was purchased after years of making bad choices and selling my Epiphone when the accoustic era hit but not getting what I really wanted.

I ended up receiving a Martin OMC-28 which is a limited edition (Guitar of the Month) on my 10 wedding anniversary in 1980. I traded the Guild and of course paid the difference. I really love the OMC for it's projection and sweet tone.

I'm still curious if Guild in Westerly RI re-issued the D-25 later with a solid top and sides. I think it was the scalloped X-bracing of the Martin that gave it the projection (not to mention that I was a finger style guitarist and loved the wider neck).

I wanted a Jumbo next and bartered for a Taylor 915 with a music store owner in Claremont California whose grandson is Ben Harper. Ben was the one who got the guitar for me. The workmanship is beautiful but I am a bit disappointed at the sound on this one as well. I ended up installing a JLD Bridge Doctor on this one with brass pins and this improved the sound considerably.

Now I can't help but think that had the Bridge Doctor been around when I had the Guild D-25 I might have enjoyed it much more than I did.

Three years ago I found a mint 1997 Bluesbird (I have a post in the solid body section of this forum) and this is a guitar I love more than any electric I've ever owned - including the '64 Epiphone Riviera.

I've also had a Fender Strat Import (Japanese) that I ended up giving my grandson last year. I did some work on the electronics to rewire the pickups and change capacitors, but there is that Maple Neck tone that is unique to Strats that I really enjoyed. It was an inexpensive investment, but I have it set up so that my grandson who is now 14 years old is encouraged to play and learn. My only problem with the Strat was that I couldn't fingerpick on it - but the Bluesbird is ideal for fingerstyle and the quality is tremendous.

Please let me know if they have changed the D-25 since the late 70's. I'm just interested because I've always associated Guild with fine instruments and would like to see the line go on even if it is with Fender in California now. At least the quality of the new Guilds has been maintained from what I read.

Thanks
LQGuitarist

No longer but long remembered:
1958 (approx) Gibson LG-2
1964 Epiphone Riviera (original Epi)
1964 (approx) Fender Vibrolux Reverb Tube Amp.
1970 Ramirez Student Model Classical (cracked after entry into U.S. but what a sound)
1978 Guild D-25
1995 Fender Japanese Stratocaster with modified pickup selectors, capacitors and pots. (Given to my grandson)
Peavey 15W Solid State Amp (With my grandson)

My current guitars:
1990 - Martin OMC-28
1992 - Taylor 915 Jumbo
1997 - Guild Bluesbird (CL0000420) with Duncan SH-1's in gloss Black and Black pickup mounting rings.
1994 Fender Blues Deluxe Tweed Amp

sorry LQ but you've been given some bad information. D-25's never had laminated tops, they've always been solid tops. Some were mahogany, some were spruce like my '76 but they were both solid tops.

The arched back models like my '76 have a laminated mahogany back and no internal back bracing, perhaps that's where the laminated thing came from.

I believe the bowed back with no bracing gives it the booming sound it produces. I prefer to think I got the best of both worlds, bowed back and solid spruce top. It's bright at the top end and the bass notes really ring. It's been my main acoustic for 30 years now, although it's been taking a back seat to the DV-52 lately :roll:

It was probably bad information as I said that I was able to see the grain of the top follow the curve of the sound hole. However, I don't recall an arched back and this may be why mine sounded so flat (compared to my Martin and Taylor).
If I knew then what I know now, I think the Bridge Doctor with brass pins would have helped it project more. Still, for what I paid for the D-25 back then (considering solid woods), it was not a bad buy. I might have done more to help the sound and kept it.
Thanks for letting me know,

I recently had my D-25 properly set up, and my gosh.... tone for days.

Can somebody tell me the basic differences between the D's and DV's (or maybe just point me to a prior thread if one exists)?


[img:500:667]http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c141/mtsweeney/Guitars/GuildD-25-1992001-2.jpg[/img]

Hi, I'm a newbie, but I've been lurking around here ever since I got a D-25 myself, a couple of months ago.

Mine is a 1978 (the year I was born!) D-25CH, made in Westerly. I traded a Fender USA Strat for it and it was the best decision I've made in years. I fell in love with her the moment I saw her picture. And now I am hooked on this guitar and it'll be my companion for life.

She is in excellent shape, though she is full of scratches and dents and once the neck was broken near the headstock, but was repared very beautifully and professionally. It's the most beautiful beaten up thing I have ever seen. She plays like a dream. Everyting is original, except for the nut, the bridge and the bridge pins.

Here's a picture:

[img:384:512]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/pearlwax/IMG_2453.jpg[/img]

The picture doesn't do the colour justice: it's cherry red.
Besides showing her off , I also have two questions:

1) as you see in the picture, there is a double pickguard. I was told this was pretty rare in D-25's. Can anyone tell me more about this?

2) This might be stupid, but I was wondering which kind of strings sound best on D-25's. Right now I have 80/20 Bronze Elixir Light, .012-.053 on, the ones it came with. I love the gauge, but I've read bad reviews about Elixir concerning sound and tone. They do have a longer life, but supposedly that doesn't help the tone. I mean, she sounds amazing as it is, but if putting on a different brand of strings will make her sound even better, I won't hesitate. Any suggestions? Thanks!

Looking forward to spending some time here!

Double guard D-25

sv said:

as you see in the picture, there is a double pickguard. I was told this was pretty rare in D-25's. Can anyone tell me more about this?

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Welcome sv,

The double pickguard is an option that goes back to the mid-'60s. There's not a whole lot I can tell you about it. I guess it was something for people who were scratching up their guitars. It's not exactly rare but definitely not something you see every day. I like the combination with the 'cherry-red' finish.

By the way, what's the serial number of your guitar. It's just for my database.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust

Hi Hans,

yeah, it looks good, doesn't it. I love the cherry red. Such a warm colour.

The serial number is 170836. It was made in 1978 in Westerly, USA and it has a history, one that I unfortunately don't know much (or at least nothing interesting) of. What's the database about, if you don't mind my asking?

Thanks for the info!

sv said:

What's the database about, if you don't mind my asking?

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The database contains information on all the Guild guitars (and some other brands as well) that have come through my workshops or info that people are willing to share with me. It contains serial numbers and all kinds of specs. which allows me to pinpoint the dates that certain specs. changes were implemented. It's a great help for my ongoing research on Guild guitars.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

I got a reply about my D-25 from Hans Moust, and he directed me to this forum. Rather than reply to his email with another question, I'll post my question here so everybody can benefit from the answer(s). My question is about the spruce vs mahogany tops on the D-25. Apparently Guild started using the arched backs late in 1973, and went to spruce tops in 1976. Did they make both spruce and mahogany topped D-25s during the same period? Maybe when they made the D-25NT with the unstained top that was when they made both? I plan to eventually get at least one example of each, because I love this model and can't afford expensive guitars. I just bought a 1972 D-25 with mahogany top and the braced flat-back - I've tried one previously and loved it. I played a mahogany top w/arched back model yesterday and loved it too. I've previously tried a spruce top w/arched back and that model also sounded wonderful to me. This is a great model to collect for those of us on a budget! You can find them on ebay from $300-$800 and at dealers for a bit more, as most of you already know. I've never seen a D-25 go for over $1,000, but in a few years I expect that will change. I think they made both the spruce and mahogany topped models w/arched back for a few years in the late 1970's and early 1980's, but I'm not sure?

Another question I have concerns the weight. I've noticed that Guild guitars from the 1960's tend to be built lighter, and they started becoming heavier in the 1970's which continued through the Westerly years - perhaps it started when they moved to Westerly? Recent Corona models are built more like the 1960 Guilds, and the seem lighter than the earlier Westerly models. I haven't seen the Tacoma models yet, but I assume they will continue building them lighter like Corona did?

THANKS!