High fret at body and pole height adjustment question

LQGuitarist

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I'm new to the forum and am an old guy who has been playing for most of my life. I love blues and am particular to fingerstyle. I picked up a '97 Bluesbird in Black with Schaller SH-1's for what I still feel is a great price of $700.00. The guitar was rarely played and the owner had two - the one he wanted to keep was a custom Cherry Red stained BB with special Electronics. I've had it for about three years, but it did not come alive for me until I found a 94 Fender Blues Deluxe last December that I purchased from a guy in Tennesee over Ebay. It is a great combination.
My Bluesbird has a low serial number that I tracked back to 1997 ( CL0000420).

I've been very happy with the guitar but I never took the time to do a proper setup on it. I'm a structural engineer by professiona and in private practice so for the last few years I've had little time to really play. When I gave my grandson one of my old Japanese Strats last summer, I got the bug to start playing again and when I bought my tube amp, the desire took over as it had for most of my life before I was so caught up in working. Now at 56 years old, I'm starting to put my priorities straight and playing has become important to my personal balance.

I wasn't sure if I could mention other guitars I own so I'll go on to the questions I have about the setup on my BB. I've noticed that there is either a high fret or not enough relief in the neck since the strings mute or buzz on the fret that meets the body. The buzz starts when I'm play at or above the 12th fret and I have a tendency for a light tough (mostly fingerstyle or Chicago Blues).

I bought a set of feeler gauges today and lightly clamped a capo on the first fret and applied pressure on the fret that meets the body. A 0.020" gauge is a tight fit between all of the strings. I'm moving the guage as I check each string (one at a time). There is less than 0.020" relief in the neck with a capo on the first fret and trying to slide the feeler gauge around the 8th fret after applying pressure at the 16th fret or the one where the neck meets the body. I'm going to try tightening the truss rod slightly to see if I can induce more bow to clear the 16th fret. Has anyone had this experience or have there been any issues that might point to a high fret? Since the guitar has been play so very little, the frets are original and the problem could be due to our dry climate (I live in the desert) which can unset a fret. I've placed a straight edge over the frets to find the high fret and the straight edge does rock on the one fret. Before I try to dress the fret, I think I should adjust the neck relief first to see if this relieves the buzz and helps with the intonation.

The next issue has to do with adjustment of the pickup poles. I have Dan Erlewine's DVD for Setup and Maintenance and he suggests lowering the Low and high E poles flush with the pickup cover and then adjust the other poles to the neck radius which is where I run into a problem. I don't want to order radius gauges and since I work on CAD, I can print out a set or radius arcs and glue them to card stock. Has anyone tried this? Also the specs on the newer (2002) Westerly BB's indicated a 12" radius neck. Does anyone know if the same spec was used on the CL serial numbers when it was reissued in '96? The other part of the questiton is if anyone has a spec on the type of fret wire used as these seem pretty low (similar to an early 70's Gibson LP Custom fretless wonder?).

I do need to adjust the intonation, but I have to take care of the neck relief first and the nut adjustment for the strings I'm using. I have this down but would like some feedback from anyone who has done their own setup. I have always set up my own instruments except for cutting a nut or bridge bone on my accoustics. The Adjust-O-Matic's make it easy to do it yourself.

Any opinions that would help me?

Thanks in Advance!

LQGuitarist (new forum member)
 

dklsplace

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Welcome LQG. Plenty of opinions here....some are even helpful from time to time. :p

You've identified your high fret. Adjusting your neck relief is a good first step, but don't hold your breath on the outcome. Do you notice any sort of a neck "hump" on the fretboard where the neck meets the body?

Erlewine is good reference material. While some areas of guitar setup are down to a pretty exacting science...other's aren't so much. Adjusting pickup height, angle, pole piece height, radius, etc are things I put in the trial & error category. About as subjective as which strings to use.

Every guitar is unique, as is the ear of each player/listener. I radius the pole height on my guitars, but simply by eye-balling the adjustment. Then I'll tweak according to my taste & what I'm hearing when I play. I have an older guitar where the B string was extremely hot with a typical adjustment, so I had to lower the pole piece out of the radius so it would blend better.

Hope this is helpful!
Don
 

LQGuitarist

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You've identified your high fret. Adjusting your neck relief is a good first step, but don't hold your breath on the outcome. Do you notice any sort of a neck "hump" on the fretboard where the neck meets the body?

Yes, I can see it. You're absolutly correct about what I can see - there is a hump at the fret that joins the body. As I mentioned, I live in the desert near Palm Springs (I work here and don't play golf) where the humidity in the summer can be as low as 4% relative to over 50% in the fall when they reseed the golf courses. I normally keep my guitars in the case all the time but leave my BB hanging on the wall above my Fender Blues Deluxe in my office / den where I do most of my engineering design (I work with Architects providing structural engineering in earthquake and wind areas for custom homes and old historic buildings).

I would think that the dry desert climate and a dry rosewood fret board have probably caused shrinkage that worked the fret up in its slot. I just recently cleaned and conditioned the fret board and treated it with a Seymour Duncan (BTW the pickup manufacturer that I wrongly identified as Schaller is Duncan but I was tired when I submitted the post and did not check it) . I noticed that the the rosewood sucked up the conditioner and reapplied it about four times before wiping down the excess. I'm going to give the board a chance to swell which may help but once the fret board finds equalization, I'll try tapping down the 16th fret at the body with a plastic mallet before filing and dessing the fret. I have noticed that rosewood fretboards are more dimensionally unstable in climates like the desert than the denser Ebony fret boards. Even a Maple neck and sealed Maple fret board will not dry out as much or require adjustment as much as a rosewood board.

BTW, one of the reasons I've kept my guitars cased is because I live in earthquake country and want maximum protections. I am particular about my guitars and even own my grandmother's 1933 Baby Grand which I promised her I would take care of. We both are the only amature musicians in the family (She played for silent movie theaters in the early 20th century and I have not played for money since College) but our instruments are like our children - they are more than tools even though she never really took care of her 1933 Chicago Worlds Fair Baldwin. Some day I'll finish restoring it in her memory, but keep my guitars looking like the day I bought them.

The Bluesbird is in mint condition (two small kings at the edge of the headstock but not a scratch anywhere else) but I do have it hung from the wall. One reason is that these solid chambered instruments are not as sensitive to humidity change (unless you neglect the unfinished wood as I had on the fret board) as my accoustics which both have personal stories and are rather rare, but not old instuments. One was a gift from my wife on our 10th anniversary and only 89 of them were made (not a Guild and I don't know if I'm allowed to mention another brand), and the other was a "barter" from Ben Harper whose grandfather was my friend and whom I did some engineeing work for. Ben was about 16 at the time and when he was not in school or playing with Taj Mahal, he was repairing guitars in his grandfathers Folk Instrument Center in Clairmont California. Fortunately, I specialize in the retrofit of old brick buildings to resist earthquakes and the store was one of the old Unreinforced Masonry buildings. My wife knew that it was a once in a lifetime thing (although none of us knew where Ben would end up until he signed with Virgin Records a few years later) and she gave me to okay to trade work for a custom Jumbo accoustic that very ornate with linlay (also not a Guild).

For those interested, I have owned other Guilds, but this is when they were using laminated tops on their D-25 in the late 70's and I really was not happy with it, but it was all I could afford at the time.

For those of you who are doing a setup on a Bluesbird, let me point out that I posted some wrong information. The 0.02-inch clearance is not the relief spec but the spec for the disance between bottom of string and the first fret. The recommended relief is closer to 0.010-inch and I would say that I am close to that now. The pickups are Duncans (not Schallers) but I was looking through a Stewart MacDonald Catalog at the time and my old age mixed up tuners fo pickups. The tuners on my BB are Grovers and the bridge and tail piece are Gotoh imports. The year the BB was made was 1997 and except for possibly the number of zero's quoted, the serial number is accurate.

I'm going to cut some radius's using arc's stating at 7-1/2" to 12-inch radius drawn on CAD and I have a few old plastic credit cards that are no longer used. I can cut them out to match the printed full size arc I've drawn and trim them to get under the strings or over the pickups and bridge. This will also help me identify if the Adust-O-matic bridge has flattened any or if it varies from the neck radius.

I have not installed the pick guard that came with the guitar but ordered a new one from StewMac.com because I wanted a traditional Les Paul pick guard in laminated black-white-black to match the binding. I do mostly fingerstyle and want the pickguard in place (I hope aftter drilling out the screw holes). I need to trim the LP pickguard as the pickup mounting rings don't match the Gibson's - but this is easy to do by taping the Guild pickguard to the Stewart MacDonald LP pickguard as long as you don't increase the depth of the cut for the StewMack guard. Still, the lines of the older LP guard is more to my liking. I'll keep the original in case someone wants it after I am dead and gone and willing to part with this guitar

I'll let you know how it works out and if anyone is interested, I can send or atttach (if allowed) a PDF file with the arc's so that those who want can cut their own radius blanks for checking and setup.

I agree with you about the pickups - I think that I would like a little more midrange on mine, but feel that the best starting point is to set them using Erlewines technicique and then to fine tune from there.

BTW, does anyone using a Fender Blues Deluxe have an opinion about matching tubes (mine are differentt brands and are not a matched set). I was planning on changing out all the tubes (three I think) and found an online source who will provide a matched and tested set based on your desscription for the amount of clipping tthat you would like to obtain to gain clean distortion and sustain at low volume. I like the sound of the mismatched amp, but it is not quite what I was hoping for. I have a Boss SD-1 and Chorus Box hooked up in line and while it can distort nicely, I would rather have it distort and sustain with a cleaner (less fuzz). I know this is subjective, but I am not sure how to put this into words to describe the tone I want at a lower volume level.

Thanks for the advice, I was really glad to find this forum as I think very highly of this guitar and am not generally here to collect vintage instruments, but to find ones that will inspire me to play. My background is fingerstyle blues, rag and Celtic music and I am particularly fond of electric Chicago Blues (my home town).

If anyone is interested, I've met a lot of talented guitarists and studio muscians in my work as a structural engineer. I used to browse the music stores in West Los Angeles and managed one in Chicago when I was much younger and it gave me a chance to be recommended for Architectual Engineering work for those in the industry just by word of mouth. I'll pass along stories from time to time if those of you are interested. I'm not attempting to brag - I simply admired some of them and thought others while talented were rather flakey. For the most part, the most talented of the bunch where either old timers like Jethro Burns who taught Mandolin at the store I managed while in collegein Chicago in the early 70's after his partner died. Some might not know that Jethro's wife is a twin and his brother in law was Chet Atkins. I never met Atkins, but knew the Burns family a long time ago and had tremendous respect for Jethro - a really fine and technical guitarist as well as one of the best mandolin players. I remember meeting Alice Cooper when he arrived in Chicago to do a recording at Universal in Chicago. I had no idea at the time (around 1970) who he was and thought it was his aunt who would sign for the instruments they wanted to rent as theirs were redirected via airlines to another city. Not until years later did I know and to be honest, I did not think much of his personality when he walked into our store.

Let me know if you are interested in any other stories and I'll be happy to post them for those who admire these people. I must admit that they are talented and in most cases made me envious of their talent - maybe the reason I became a structural engineer and who are genuinely nice people (some based on my age are now legends who passed away years ago). :D

Best regards,
Dennis
AKA LQGuitarist
 

coastie99

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LQGuitarist said:
I'm new to the forum and am an old guy who has been playing for most of my life. I love blues and am particular to fingerstyle. I picked up a '97 Bluesbird in Black with Schaller SH-1's for what I still feel is a great price of $700.00. The guitar was rarely played and the owner had two - the one he wanted to keep was a custom Cherry Red stained BB with special Electronics. I've had it for about three years, but it did not come alive for me until I found a 94 Fender Blues Deluxe last December that I purchased from a guy in Tennesee over Ebay. It is a great combination.
My Bluesbird has a low serial number that I tracked back to 1997 ( CL0000420).

I've been very happy with the guitar but I never took the time to do a proper setup on it. I'm a structural engineer by professiona and in private practice so for the last few years I've had little time to really play. When I gave my grandson one of my old Japanese Strats last summer, I got the bug to start playing again and when I bought my tube amp, the desire took over as it had for most of my life before I was so caught up in working. Now at 56 years old, I'm starting to put my priorities straight and playing has become important to my personal balance.

I wasn't sure if I could mention other guitars I own so I'll go on to the questions I have about the setup on my BB. I've noticed that there is either a high fret or not enough relief in the neck since the strings mute or buzz on the fret that meets the body. The buzz starts when I'm play at or above the 12th fret and I have a tendency for a light tough (mostly fingerstyle or Chicago Blues).

I bought a set of feeler gauges today and lightly clamped a capo on the first fret and applied pressure on the fret that meets the body. A 0.020" gauge is a tight fit between all of the strings. I'm moving the guage as I check each string (one at a time). There is less than 0.020" relief in the neck with a capo on the first fret and trying to slide the feeler gauge around the 8th fret after applying pressure at the 16th fret or the one where the neck meets the body. I'm going to try tightening the truss rod slightly to see if I can induce more bow to clear the 16th fret. Has anyone had this experience or have there been any issues that might point to a high fret? Since the guitar has been play so very little, the frets are original and the problem could be due to our dry climate (I live in the desert) which can unset a fret. I've placed a straight edge over the frets to find the high fret and the straight edge does rock on the one fret. Before I try to dress the fret, I think I should adjust the neck relief first to see if this relieves the buzz and helps with the intonation.

The next issue has to do with adjustment of the pickup poles. I have Dan Erlewine's DVD for Setup and Maintenance and he suggests lowering the Low and high E poles flush with the pickup cover and then adjust the other poles to the neck radius which is where I run into a problem. I don't want to order radius gauges and since I work on CAD, I can print out a set or radius arcs and glue them to card stock. Has anyone tried this? Also the specs on the newer (2002) Westerly BB's indicated a 12" radius neck. Does anyone know if the same spec was used on the CL serial numbers when it was reissued in '96? The other part of the questiton is if anyone has a spec on the type of fret wire used as these seem pretty low (similar to an early 70's Gibson LP Custom fretless wonder?).

I do need to adjust the intonation, but I have to take care of the neck relief first and the nut adjustment for the strings I'm using. I have this down but would like some feedback from anyone who has done their own setup. I have always set up my own instruments except for cutting a nut or bridge bone on my accoustics. The Adjust-O-Matic's make it easy to do it yourself.

Any opinions that would help me?

Thanks in Advance!

LQGuitarist (new forum member)
 

coastie99

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Sorry re the above. I wanted to quote "I'm new to the forum, and an old guy"
You'll feel right at home here in Geezerland LQ - welcome, and congratulations on your good taste in guitars and musical style.
 
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