Smothers Brothers

hansmoust

Enlightened Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Messages
9,201
Reaction score
3,505
Location
Netherlands
From the 'Guild Treatment on Ebay' thread in the ' ebay offerings' section:

Benee Wafers said:
That's a D55 right?
Benee

Hello Benee,

Well, that's what became the D-55. When Tommy Smothers got his Guild, the D-55 was not introduced yet. I believe at the time the guitar was listed as a D-50 Special. Here's a photo showing that particular guitar.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust

http://www.guitarchives.nl/guitarsgalor ... php?id=173
 

Squawk

Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2005
Messages
757
Reaction score
0
Although I was pretty young when the folk boom was in full swing (as were most of us geezers), my older sister was heavily into it and folk music played constantly in the room we shared - so I have a good memory of the music, but not of the insruments. Does anyone know how prominent guilds were in other folk groups - particularly those of the very early 60s?
 

hansmoust

Enlightened Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Messages
9,201
Reaction score
3,505
Location
Netherlands
Hello Squawk,

I was aware of the pop music that you would hear on Dutch radio but you would not hear a lot of American folk oriented stuff during those days. However I do remember the music of Peter Paul & Mary, the Serendipity Singers (who were fanatic Guild users), the Springfields, the New Christy Minstrels but in those days we were more interested in what came out of Britain. I must add that Bob Dylan made a big impression on me when he just came out.

During my research on Guild guitars I came across a lot of players who played Guild guitars at some point during their career but most of that happened halfway the '60s.
Joni Mitchell played a Guild around the time she moved to the US. John Denver was already playing Guilds when he was with the Chad Mitchell Trio and Paul Simon was another biggie who played Guild guitars almost exclusively during the '60s. And then you had the people who were playing the coffee houses in Greenwhich Village in New York, like Dave van Ronk, Richie Havens, Guy Carawan. And many members of the folk-pop-rock bands of that era like Steve Stills (in Buffalo Springfield), John Sebastian and Zal Yanovsky of the Lovin' Spoonful and Rick Danko of The Band all played Guild guitars.

There might be readers on this forum who were a little closer to the American folk scene than me and who could add some more names to the list.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust

P.S. Note that I added a link to a photo of the Smothers Brothers to the beginning of this thread.
 

Squawk

Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2005
Messages
757
Reaction score
0
On the out-takes DVD of the Monterey Pop box set released a year or two ago, Paul Simon plays a Guild 12 string on "Sounds of Silence". And of course, Richie Havens. He used to show up impromptu at the student center when I was in college (late 60s - what is now Baruch College in NYC) and play with his back-up musicians (same ones in the Woodstock movie) regularly as he had great regard for the director of the student center who personally helped him before he became famous. Man, did he beat the hell out of his Guild!
 
Joined
Nov 19, 2005
Messages
458
Reaction score
0
Location
Baton Rouge, Louisiana
The Folk Boom

Hey! I can tell you with absolute certainly about the 'folk boom' - because I was there. Hell! I started the whole thing rolling. Met this kid one day back in the late 30's, maybe early 40's name Pete Seeger. He was only into swing and jazz and I turned his head around by playing....uh, yeah, it was a tune Seeger would later claim to write. I played a bunch of things for him - House of the Slidding Sons, This Plane is Bound for Stories, This Hand is Your Hand. Then this Seeger kid shows up a few years later and he's inspired a whole bunch of others to adopt communism and play acoustic guitars. Pretty soon, the whole village is playing acoustics and you got a bunch of 18-year olds with no world-vision telling the rest of the world how to do everything. There were so many of the buggers that they had to form groups just to get jobs to make money to share - yeah! remember they were all communist by now. Big groups - the New Crunchy Minstrels and so on. Then, some of 'em got TV shows and the whole thing blew wide open.

Of course, I didn't care because I had already moved over to found the 'new' singer/songwriter revolution.....

OK - seriously, I WAS there - though youngish. Even in it's hey-day, Guilds were not as visible as were Martins and Gibsons. However, when a group wanted to use a 12-string - they were almost always Guilds. Tim Buckley played a Guild 12, and so did Barry McGuire (Eve of Destruction) with the New Christy Minstrels and solo. I saw Harry Chapin playing Guilds for a time in the early 70's; Dave Van Ronk, Tom Smothers, John Denver, John Renbourne, Richie Havens (of course), Paul Simon (in the good ole' day), Bruce Cockburn still plays a Guild F112, Tom Fogerty of Creedence, Zally in the Spoonful, Dewey Bunnel of America played a Guild 12, now you can see Tom Petty and others, as it seems that Guild 12s are still looked at by those in the know as the best.

But, that's just it. When I was in high school in the late 60's and early 70's, Danny Guidry - who was the guitarist to watch in those days - said that everyone played Martins because ..well, because everyone played them and you wanted to be part of everyone. Strangely, that made sense to me and sent me running the other way when I started listening to the Martins being played in coffeehouses. But like it or not, Guilds weren't the 'common' and perhaps that's what makes us here so passionate - we're part of something that defies 'the common'.

Hey - I was part of that folk boom - that acoustic rebellion. Everywhere you went, there were acoustic instruments and people singing and playing. But whenever I took my Guild in, the response was ALWAYS the same...."Wow! a Guild - mind if I play it a bit?" dbs
 

West R Lee

Venerated Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2005
Messages
17,741
Reaction score
2,663
Location
East Texas
Once again well put Smith. And it's been my experience here lately, as I've begun to play with some guys in their 20's and 30's, they listen a bit and usually say something to the effect of "WOW so that's a Guild". From there the reaction is the same....."mind if I play that?"

By the way Smith, I thought about you last night as I watched "Braveheart". I could almost see you riding side by side with William Wallace, kilt and all. :) I'll bet you like that movie.

West
 
Joined
Nov 19, 2005
Messages
458
Reaction score
0
Location
Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Ouch- ouch!

West - Thanks for thinking of me. However, I'd have been a runner like my ancestors. Have you ever ridden a horse in a kilt? Ouch! That's why the real Wallace probably wore trousers (called Trews in the Highlands) and chain mail.

Very unlikely the real Wallace ever wore tartan (that's the plaids, lads) and it wasn't until the INCREDIBLY BRAVE, FOCUSED, AND NOBLE Robert the Bruce that the Highlanders joined in the fight. Theretofore, they felt it didn't concern them - so, what if the English masacred a few lowlanders, right? Bruce brought it home to them and then everyone profited from many years of peace under King Robert. Interestingly, Queen Isabella was only 5 years old when Wallace was executed at Smithfield - they had a fair that day to celebrate the murder of the man they had been led to believe was a monster. And the younger Edward had some horribly naughty things done to him by his Queen's lover later in life - resulting in a very painful death - but poetic given his sexual proclivities.

Excellent movie, yes, but Hollywood never let historical accuracy stand in the way of a good yarn. Screenwriter Randall Wallace should have been hung for his confusion of history - but then, his role model was probably Billy Shakespeare who ALWAYS re-wrote history and truth to get a good tale to tell. His MacBeth besmirched the name of a GREAT Scottish King, but was a wonderful ghost story. Ah, truth. It's stated very well by Jiminy Cricket in Disney's Pinnochio when he shrugs rhetorically, "What does an actor need with a conscience anyway?!"

But them here I am prattling on when what we ALL should be doing is playing Guild guitars....from Westerly, of course. dbs
 

West R Lee

Venerated Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2005
Messages
17,741
Reaction score
2,663
Location
East Texas
Smith,

And I'm assuming that's where the name Smithfield Fair came from. I had absolutely no idea when I submitted that post. Now that is extremely interesting.

Clarify something for me...you may already have. Wallace was merely considered a rebel and the "real" fight didn't take place UNTIL Robert the Bruce took the helm?

Sorry for the regression, but I am fascinated by this.

West
 

Cypress Knee

Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2005
Messages
470
Reaction score
38
Location
Vista, CA
This statue of Wallace is in Druid Hill Park in Baltimore. Just how accurate it is, I don't know, but he isn't wearing a kilt as much as armored leggings and an armored tunic of some sort. This is where I place a bagpiper during my Celtic Solstice race:
[img:480:600]http://mdhsimage.mdhs.org/Library/Images/Mellon%20Images/Z6access/z6-0765.jpg[/img]

Coming this Saturday though, the Dreaded Druid Hills 10K!

CK
 
Joined
Nov 19, 2005
Messages
458
Reaction score
0
Location
Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Wallace

West -- Wallace was a true freedom fighter, but there is little actually known about his past. It is believed his family came to the lowlands of Scotland from Wales (hense the root of the name Wallace). They were landowners, so not some poor farmer or peasant. He came from a family of some regard. He was a randy sort evidently and while variations on the story vary, it is believed his girlfriend/common-law wife was killed by the local governor in retaliation of a grudge he bore Wallace. Wallace retaliated to her death by boarding up this petty local official and his crowd in a building and setting it afire. This called out the law on Wallace. Eventually, Wallace became a brilliant guerilla fighter and had the English-run government on the run. Wallace and others saw this as a way to retake their country and began a fight to reclaim Scotland for Scots. However, this was largely a lowland event - the Highlanders are Scots Gaelic-speaking and a very different culture - completely separate form their lowland countrymen to the point of nearly being two countries.

Scottish lords and petty nobility were often bought off with more titles and lands taken from others by the English and were, in essense traitors to their own country. In this way, the English kept them in such turmoil the infighting kept them busy. Edward Baliol was essentially a puppet king for Edward I of England. Robert the Bruce had about the best claim, but there were others who claimed the throne and the Bruce even murdered one of these in a local church - putting himself on the run. Wallace became so successful at routing the English and their henchmen that he was made a "Guardian" of Scotland. But Wallace was ultimately betrayed by one of his own men - promised money and titles by the English - and arrested, held for a time in Dumbarton Castle, then carted to London for a mock trial and execution. He was garrotted and drug through the city, then at Smithfield Kirk in London was disembowled while still alive, beheaded and quartered - his limbs and head sent to the pikes on the walls of prominent Scottish cities as a warning to others so rebellious. Edward 'Longshanks' was a really cruel king with a flair for the dramatic. At this point, the Bruce's efforts were increasing and he now had the support to make his play. His first efforts had put him on the run - remember the story of his hiding in a cave and watching a spider try over and over to bridge a space with his web and finally succeeding on the 7th time? This made him resolve to become persistent and then got the Highanders on his side. The Bruce came back with a vengeance and the rest is history - they devastated the best army in the world at that time on the fields at Bannockburn.

The Treaty of Arbroath declared Scottish independence after this and was written by Thomas Randolph, an ardent supporter of the Bruce and a direct ancestor of Thomas Jefferson. Jefferson would base the Declaration of Independence on the Treaty of Arbroath. It was the Bruce that established the "Stewarts" of Scotland that would later be the centerpiece of the Jacobite Rebellions (1698 to 1752, I think....). As a sidebar - historians point at the execution of James Stewart of the Glen (the Glen being Duror of Appin from whence my family hails) on November 8, 1752 as the end of the Jacobite Rebellions. Robert Louis Stevenson heard the story of the Appin murder and James of the Glen and included them as pivotal acts in his books Kidnapped and the follow-up, Catriona. (Though he took liberties with the story as filmmakers have in every retelling of that bit of history, too.)

OK - far more than you wanted to know, but here's an irony: While my family are Highland stock - McLaurins of Appin, the English side of my family - the Smith-Carringtons - came to the Americas on a landgrant in the late 1600's to found Smithfield in Isle of Wight County, Virginia (famous for its hams).

Jim - What IS Wallace doing in Baltimore? More Scottish influence on America, I suspect. dbs
[/b]
 

West R Lee

Venerated Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2005
Messages
17,741
Reaction score
2,663
Location
East Texas
Dudley,

As far as being more than I wanted to know, I have a ton of respect for people who are proud of their heritage. "Braveheart" is one of my favorite movies and it is quite interesting to learn more backround of the era and the Scottish people and history.

I've always been especially fond of your very own Cajuns for that reason and have many friends in the Lafayette and New Iberia area. Their love of their heritage, their food and their music have always intrigued me. Probably because I know so little of my heritage. I'm sort of like Bill Murray describes Americans in "Stripes". A mut!

West
 

john_kidder

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2005
Messages
3,103
Reaction score
6
Location
Ashcroft, BC, Canada
West:

Of course, the Cajun story begins as a sad episode in Canadian history.

The "Cajuns" were orginally the "Acadians", who began settling in what is now Nova Scotia in about 1620. There were around 15,000 of them by 1700. In 1755, the British, then preparing for the Seven Year's War with France, gave them an ultimatum - "Swear loyalty to the British Crown, or lose your home and lands". About 6,000 Acadians were then forcibly expelled, and most of them went to (then-French) Louisiana. They later became American because of the Louisiana purchase of 1803.

I'm the President of the Vancouver Folk Music Festival Society - when we get folks here like Queen Ida and other Cajun musicians, it's just fabulous to get them together with groups from Quebec and New Brunswick (the remainder of Acadie in Canada - some came back after the war). The original musical themes are the same, but the musicians from Canada have way more Celtic influence from the Scots and Irish who came here later. But, when they all get together, it's just awe-inspiring, and a huge reminder of how music works over the centuries and across continents.

"Laisser les bons temps rouler", indeed.
 
Joined
Nov 19, 2005
Messages
458
Reaction score
0
Location
Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Cajuns

John - Very good. There is a sadly strange allegiance that developes whenever Celtic and Cajun musicians get together. I think it has a great deal to do with dance music and the fiddle. This year at the Louisiana Highland Games - the presentation will be called "Fiddle Off" between Mitch Reeves (of Celjun and also now of Beausoliel) and Scots fiddling great John Taylor. They will talk about the similarities and differences - playing separately and then together. Several years back at another Celtic festival in south Louisiana, Breton musicians, Canadian musicians, Celtic and Cajuns did just the same thing. Awe inspiring.

Though I grew up in Louisiana - the Cajuns were even more clannish than the Scots. Where I lived in Alexandria (largely Scots-Irish & English), one would almost not know the Cajuns were just south of us in Avoyelles and Evangeline Parishes. They spoke predominantly French. My father was a butcher and a lot of his territory was in those parishes where he spoke in French to his Cajun customers and English to the others. This was my education about the Cajuns. They loved my father, and treated him with old world defference. He respected them and their desire to keep their culture intact. An interesting balance. I was a far cry from the commericalized "cajunism" of today.

Always reminds me of the "Grande Alliance" in olden days between Scotland and France.

As they say - those who learn from history profit from it and do not repeat its mistakes. dbs
 

john_kidder

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2005
Messages
3,103
Reaction score
6
Location
Ashcroft, BC, Canada
Dudley-Brian:

I think you're completely correct about the fiddle/dance connection - that's where the continuity with the Scots, Bretons, etc. carries on.

Here's a blurb from The International Celtic-Acadian-Louisiana Festival "Since 2003, the Festival has been a meeting place for music and for those who love music. It brings together musicians and Canadians of all backgrounds and provides a unique opportunity for fruitful interactions between them. In so doing, it strengthens the ties that bind Canadians of Acadian, Irish, Scottish, Welsh and Breton descent. . . . The Festival welcomes top Celtic, Acadian, Louisiana and Quebec performers as well as promising new musicians who are setting out to redefine music for the 21st century.".

Now THAT would have been fun - two weeks ago in Montreal.
 
Top