Searching for a warm sounding 12-String

Hello at all,

I am looking out for a "new" (mint or near mint) Rhode-Island-build 12-String. I own a JF-30 6-String from the year 2000 and want to have a 12-String which sounds very warm. I searched at eBay for the model F-212XL (the 412 costs too much for me...).
What about the differnce between the F-212XL and a JF-30-12? In Hans' Book the JF-Models are not listed, because they are too young. Is this the same Model? I don't want to buy a new GAD because I don't want to have a China-Guitar when I decide to buy a Guild.
I think I can go up to near 2200 $ or in German 1800 EUR for my "dream". I don't want to have a used Guitar with a lot of scratches and so on.
What do you mean - what's the right model for me?

Best regards - Dietmar

Hello Dietmar:

The difference between those two guitars is that the 212XL has mahogany back and sides, while the JF-30-12 has maple back and sides. I think that they are the same size.

You might find Mahogany to have a warmer sound than maple... I do. There are 3 "jumbo" sized 12 strings in mahogany, each getting smaller.... 212XL (super jumbo), 212 (jumbo) and 112 (mini jumbo). I have a 112.

Guild also made the F312, I think, which has rosewood back and sides. Some find rosewood to be warmer than mahogany. For me, I find rosewood's bass to be warmer than mahogany, but the trebles can be metallic and cold, depending upon the guitar. The trebles of my DV-52 and J45R lack the coldness of many Martin sounding rosewood guitars, thankfully. Still, I find that rosewood 12 strings sound a little too "busy" for my ears... the overtones plus 12 strings kind of gets a little muddy-- at least to me. Many people love them. Personally, I think mahogany works best with a 12 string guitar.

Guild also made a dreadnaught-sized 12 string in both mahogany (D212) and rosewood (G312).

Hope that helps.

Bob

Hello Bob,

so I think for me it must be a super jumbo - in this case a 212XL not a 212 or a 112. I love my JF-30 sunburst in maple - it looks beautiful and sounds very good. A few days ago, I could play a 12-String Lakewood-Guitar (a Dreadnought). The sound was very differentiated but a bit cold. The Guitar has much mids and trebles - but the basses are missing.
So I think the 212-XL in mahogany would be exactly have the right sound for me, the JF-30-12 in antique burst and maple would be second choice and a 412 would be always stay in my dreams...
Do you know the year, in which the F-212XL was last build in Rohde Island?

Best regards - Dietmar

Do you know the year, in which the F-212XL was last build in Rohde Island?

Click to expand...

I don't, but I bet Mr. Moust does!

Mr. Magic Takamine said:

Do you know the year, in which the F-212XL was last build in Rohde Island?

Best regards - Dietmar

Click to expand...

Hello Dietmar,

The F-212XL was listed throughout the '80s but not many were sold after 1985. In 1987 the model wasn't even listed in the price lists but in spite of that some were produced and the last ones were done in 1989. In 1998 the model was reintroduced and it stayed in the line until the Westerly plant closed in 2001.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust

If I were going to buy a 12 now, it would definately be a JF55-12 or a D55-12. Just magnificent guitars with very warm sound and all the sutstain and resonance anyone could ever ask for. Man, are they beautiful too.

For what it's worth,
West

Hello Hans,

thank you for your Answer. So it might be possible to get a mint F-212XL from the year 2000/2001...
So I have read the Answer from West, too.
What about the JF55-12? I don't know this model... what is the difference between the F-212XL and the JF55-12. I think, the JF55-12 might have block-inlays and the G-Shield Headstock and the body maybe maple?
When I look about my budget... what about the price for a JF55-12 in opposite of a F-212XL?

Have a nice day - Dietmar

Edit: I found some Pictures of a JF55-12 here:
http://www.home.no/abalone/
Looks very very very beautiful!!! The back and sides maybe rosewood?
When ist sounds like it looks - wow....

http://www.gbase.com/Stores/Gear/GearLi ... F=1&TI0=10

Dietmar,

Above is a link to Guild 12s available at gbase.

I think hearing varies from person to person just like vision. And there is variation from one guitar to another, especially depending on the strings.

From my experience, a 212XL never disappoints.

What is the import tax to Germany?

West: Why not an F-512?

Hello Darryl,

nice to hear from you! When I be right informed, the import tax will be up to 3% or 4% and about 150 $ for shipping. The dealers from a Guitar-Shop near by me are specialists on vintage American Guitars and they will try to find a 12-String which is near mint (or mint) for me. A Guild 212XL will be possible to find for the money I will (and can) spend. A JF55-12 or a F-512 might go over my budget of 1800,- EUR or 2200,- $...
So I can only wait an hope...

Best regards - Dietmar

Dietmar,

Look at gbase. There are a lot of guilds for under $2,000. Would your tax be only 3% or 4% to import a guitar from the US? And wouldn't shipping be a lot more than $150?

dh

Hello Darryl,

I looked at gbase - there is also a very nice 412 from 1979 and a near mint condition JF30-12. There is one F-212 from 1965 in excellent condition. I don't really like such 'old' Guitars... (I think the price is too high for them). There are a lot of people, which want to have vintage Guitars and pay lots of money for these intruments. I want an newer one like my JF-30 from the year 2000 or 2001. It must be a real Guild from Rhode Island - not a Fender from China...
It may be would not be very easy to find such a mint or near mint F-212 but i believe in my dealer or have much luck to find one here in Germany in eBay or something else from private.
Last week I have contacted a member of a german forum - his friend sold a F-412 in mint contidion for near 3000,- EUR - it was a special model but don't ask me in what year it was build.

So - back to your question: A few weeks ago I saw a 212-NT (no jumbo) in ebay America. I asked the seller about shipping costs - he told me, they are about 150,-$. So I asked in the german forum if there is anybody who have experience with ebay america. Somebody told me about these 3% or 4% tax for import... I can't say more about this.

I keep still looking at ebay in German and America. Maybe I find another Brand like Takamine or Larrivée - I haven't heared or played one of these 12-Strings, too...

Till Tomorrow - Dietmar

Dietmar,

I think Larivees are great.

I'm asking about the import tax to Europe because i know some countries there have high import taxes, like Sweden. But maybe Europeans know how to import something to a friend in a nearby low tax country and then take a train over to get it. Are Poland, The Czech Republic, and Slovenia low import countries?

Mr. Magic,

You have to admit, that's one fine looking 12 string guitar you posted there.

Dred, I suppose I have several reasons as to why a JF or D55. First, I love the look of the abalone...especially against the sunburst. I think Guild started with the abalone rosette somewhere around 1995. Since Guild left Westerly in 2001, that narrows my choices to 1995-2001, with around 1996 being the most preferable to me. Second, and most importantly, I think that there is a sound created when the high strings of a 12 are matched with the booming, deep, rich sound of rosewood.

Everyone has their opinion and mine's not worth much, but there you have it.

Good luck to you Magic,
West

My 2 cents (or ,02 Euro):

I love my Corona JF12-30. There seems to be this stigma that the Westerly's are better - but it all goes down to the individual instrument (Hans has stated this before). Coronas are still around and reasonable. I compared one to a Taylor 12 (forget the model) - no comparison in sound or feel.

I'm with Squawk. If you know guitars really well (about a million times more than i do) you can find a Corona that's as good as anything else. And there must be a RI turkey out there some place.

Hey Squawker,

I wasn't knocking your Corona, I just have this deep, deep love for Westerlys....that's all.

Forgive me,
West

West -

That's sort of obvious you would have this deep love since the RI town in question is named after you

Of course, no hard feelings. I have more Westerlys than Coronas myself - but my 3 current Coronas (JF12-30, D-50 and Bluesbird Standard) are all outstanding pieces. And they should be - they are USA Guilds.

Thanks Squawk,

It may have been the other way around though...I mean, I may have been named after the town. I do hope to have a town named after me one day though..................Bubbaville..............what do ya think?

West

Hello and good morning to all.

@Darryl: I don't know whether Poland, The Czech Republic or Slovenia are low import countries. I have never been busy with importing things from other countries. I also can't confirm this 3% or 4% for German import tax - I have only heared this.

@West: Yes, of course - the JF55-12 ist fantastic... but how much must I pay for a very good one? You wrote that your choice will go from 1995 to 2001 - that's what I want, too. Maybe Hans Moust can tell a price, I must pay for one of these Guitars?

Best regards - Dietmar