Original or restored?

Darryl Hattenhauer

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What's the difference between restored and original?

If a guitar came from the factory with a trapeze tailpiece, then somebody put a harp on it for a few years, then somebody put a trapeze on it that wasn't the original trapeze but is just like it, is the guitar all original? If such switching leaves no extra screw holes, does that make the guitar original, but it's not original if there are extra screw holes?

What if you have a 1958 or 1959 transitional model that could have come from the factory with either the 53-58 rounded pickguard, or the 58-63 rounded pickguard? If it came from the factory with one, but you put on the other, is it still all-original because it could have come from the factory with either?

Do I need to stop by West's for a Dos Equis? (a great brand of Mexican beer, very popular in Arizona and Texas.)
 

Squawk

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Good question - I will defer the final judgment to Hans, Don and any other professionals, but mydefinition is the most conservative - what it came with when purchased. Only factory mods done after purchase but before delivery would be the execption. So if you custom order a Larrivee and have the factory install a strap pin, I'd consider that original - but that's the absolute limit. If I bought the pin from Larrivee and installed it myself, it would be "upgraded with original part". If I buy a Guild X-170 that has a floating TOM bridge and I buy an original carved rosewood one from Hans and replace the TOM, I would call that restored to original specifications. Same with replacing binding, truss covers, knobs, etc.
 

Darryl Hattenhauer

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I dunno. If you buy an old guitar that has all the parts it would have had from the factory, how can you tell if, say, the original pickguard was lost but its exact twin is now on the guitar? And how could we say "original hard case?"

Maybe "restored" should mean only stuff that can't be from the factory, like replaced binding, refin, refret, etc.
 

Squawk

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Darryl Hattenhauer said:
I dunno. If you buy an old guitar that has all the parts it would have had from the factory, how can you tell if, say, the original pickguard was lost but its exact twin is now on the guitar? And how could we say "original hard case?"

Maybe "restored" should mean only stuff that can't be from the factory, like replaced binding, refin, refret, etc.

I disagree - I would call the pickguard replacement "restored with original part" - because the whole guitar - as originally purchased - was still altered. Of course, the seller may not know this - and using your example, it may have been refretted and/or rebound - and he didn't know that either.

If I'm not 100% sure the guitar I'm selling wasn't altered, I usually say "appears to be all original" - even if I have little doubt anything was changed. This is a major issue for Fender collectors - which is why you often see sellers remove the necks to show the dating, etc.

Having said all of this, it doesn't really matter to me when I buy a guitar that it meets my standard - if I like it, like the price, have the $$$, I don't get into every little part.
 

Darryl Hattenhauer

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Then how can anybody say any guitar is all original? On every guitar, there is something that might not have been on it at the factory. You can check neck numbers, but not every part on the guitar.

Maybe I don't understand what people mean by "all original." Maybe experts say "all original" only if you know the history of the guitar--like it's been your wife's for 30 years, etc.

But when I cruise sites like Mando Bros, i see the word "original" so often that the meaning of "original" can't be limited to the first knob, pickguard, tuner etc that it came with. I see the word original about 50 times more than any form of the word "restore."
 

Squawk

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That's why I (and others I am sure) won't say "100% original" unless they are 100% sure. My 1968 Fender Precision (pictured with me somewhere on LTG) is 100% original. I bought it used from a friend (in 1969). It is missing one pickup cover screw which, should I replace it before selling, I would note as "100% original except for one pickup cover screw".

Still waiting for others to weigh in on this issue...
 

Darryl Hattenhauer

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We need terms to distinguish between stuff that can be proven original, and stuff that has all the parts that it needs to be original but we can't prove those parts were on the guitar at the factory.

With cars, you can sometimes "prove" real originality with service records. And such cars are more collectible than those that just have the right parts. And by the way, Coastie's sister-in-law in Texas says that West has the right parts.
 
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