Learning To Play

West R Lee

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Ok guys, here is your opportunity to share your story and give me some advice.

Sometime back, in another thread, I had mentioned that my son-in-law played and that I was excited to have someone to will my Guilds to when my time is up. Recently, like the past few weeks, my 17 year old has for the first time taken a real interest in learning to play. His progess has caught me totally off guard. My problem is that since I've never had a lesson and don't read music, what I can teach him is limited to say the least. I'm afraid he'll know all I know in a couple of months :oops: . I'm really excited about this since it will give me the opportunity to leave some fine acoustics to him one day and to play with him until that day.

If some of you don't mind, share some of the stories of how you started playing, what instruction you've had, if any, and suggestions on becoming a better player. What has worked best for you?

Like 90% of all Geezers, the first song I learned to play was "House of the Rising Sun". An older guy(he was about 16) taught me to play it when I was about 10. After that, I bought guitar music to which I knew both lyrics and melody. The paper taught me how to play the chords and what they were called. The guitar taught me where to take my voice. One of the first I bought was the "Eagles". I loved "Peaceful Easy Feeling" and worked on it until I got it. The melody taught me when to change chords. I used the same routine with many songs until I began to be able to play simple songs by ear. That's still where I am today. Oh I've learned to play a little finger style and some small lead licks, and can occasionally figure out more complex rhythm, but most of you guys are good. I've never really had the time or desire for lessons, but I'd like for him to be far better than I am.

Any stories or suggestions?

Thanks,
West
 

john_kidder

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West: Many of the folks on this board may be "good" as you say. Not me. I'm a hacker. I've been beating on guitars without any instruction, much like your experience, since I was sixteen. And I could play pretty much any standard folk tune as long as I never had to go above the 5th fret or so, and my fingerpicking got pretty accurate, especially by picking a 12-string and hitting an individual string from a pair. So I learned a lot of folk songs, cowboy tunes, and the like.

Then, at the age of about 52, I took my first guitar lessons, and the world changed. Scales, intervals, how to build chords - just a touch of this stuff opened my eyes wide. Still, without the required practice, I didn't get a whole lot better, just more flexible. And, at 54, a good friend and teacher started me with a swing/jazz group. All those wonderful movable chords, all those wonderful progressions and rythm structures, and all with old crooner tunes that I'd heard for ever. Suddenly the whole fretboard opened up, and now I can play pretty much anything in pretty much any key. Even some simple lead lines and such.

So my suggestion for your son-in-law is the same advice I gave my twenty-year-old daughter when I bought her an aqua-coloured F-20: get some basics together, some scales, learn how to build a chord and what makes the changes, train your ear to hear the differences. Then take some basic lessons from a jazz teacher. Then turn yourself loose, and you'll go far and fast.

That's my story, anyway. I'll be very interested to heazr what others have to say.

All the best - that's a noble goal you have there.
 

Squawk

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I pretty much followed the same pattern - got an electric guitar with money from my first summer job when I turned 14 (1964) so I could play like the Beatles. My older sister was a folkie, so I needed to be electric to be different. I met a new friend in 10th grade, and we started a duo, and eventually a band. I played my sister's Gibson acoustic and bought myself a Gretsch archtop. I moved to bass for the band, and played both bass and acoustic in a duo with my sister.

While I never had formal guitar training, I did major in music in college (long story why) - when I graduated, they passed me in piano proficiency because I promised I would NOT be teaching music!

I have been toying for 2 years now about going to one of these guitar camps. Last year, I put it off to this year; this year, I have been involved with my older daughter as she bought her own home last November; maybe next year.
 

dreadnut

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ok, you asked...

My mom bought me my first guitar when I was 14, an old no-name gut string classical that she bought from a fellow waitress who needed the money, you know the drill :(

I wanted to play real bad. My inspiration was a girlfriend's dad who used to pound out country tunes on a dobro around the campfire, he was the only live guitar player I knew. Of course at the same time I was listening to the Beatles, the Stones, the Animals, DC-5, Boyce & Hart, etc.etc.

The darn thing wasn't even in tune, even I knew that, so there I sat. But, I recalled, my cousin had just gotten an acoustic Fender, so I called him up, had him play the strings one by one over the phone, and thusly tuned my guitar. Where there's a will, there's a way :D By the way, I re-strung the poor thing with steel strings, what did I know?

Once I started, I couldn't seem to stop. I played 3-4 hours a night for quite some time, to the detriment of my homework, but nonetheless, I learned the basic chords and started playing 3-chord songs I recognized, thereby learning to switch between chords.

Never took any formal lessons, don't read music at all. I did pick up a fair amount from friends that I jammed with, but most everything is self taught. This is probably the hard way to do it.

I give lessons from time to time. I tell the folks, "if you want the kid to read music, you brought him or her to the wrong place. But I can teach them to play songs and have fun playing." I like to send them home playing some kind of song the first week, even if its only a one-string song. I believe cultivating early success is crucial to the process.

I recently collaborated on a beginning guitar book with a friend of mine, and one of his quotes is a favorite of mine: "Did you ever notice nobody asks Do you work the guitar? You don't work a guitar, you play it!" (You can check out his book at joyjoyjoy.com)

My best advice would be to learn some chords and start applying them to songs he likes and wants to play. If he gets "the bug", you won't have to do anything else, he'll be off and running in his own fashion, whatever that might entail. And with a fine bunch of guitars, I might add :D

My own son wants to be a drummer (where did I go wrong?) :lol:
Actually, he plays his little Epiphone Les Jr. combo quite a bit, but last summer he worked hard for me and I rewarded him with a new set of Pearl Forums. It warms my heart when he says "Dad, lets jam!" We go downstairs and I cruise through a bunch of rock n roll songs on my DeArmond, and he accompanies me on percussion. No lessons yet for him, but we'll be starting them real soon. Kid's got a beat, I must say, and he's got a desire to play. He's 12 years old and has set in with the band a couple times already, boy what a shot in the arm for him when my drummer invited him to take over the kit for awhile :D
 

West R Lee

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Wow, none of you guys took formal guitar lessons. I thought I'd be in the minority on that. It sounds as if my meager guitar self education is the rule, not the exception.

John, what inspired you to take you first lessons at 52 if you don't mind my asking? Anytime I've asked anyone about lessons it seems they want to teach every note on the neck and how those notes make up chords. The thought of that bores me to tears. Maybe there is someone out there who could give me lessons that are applicable to the type music I play . Very encouraging John.

Squawk and Dred, sounds as if ya'll are somewhere around where I am in terms of ability. Squawk, you obviously read music very well. Any other instruments you play other than guitar and piano?

Dredster, I could really relate to your story...except the part about giving lessons. Then it dawned on me that I have actually taught several people things on the guitar as they have me. It just never was termed a lesson.

I appreciate the input from all of you. Dred, good point you make about teaching enough to give someone the bug and they take it from there....wherever that leads them.

Thanks guys,
West
 

Squawk

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West -

Yes, I read (past tense) music very well - haven't sight-read music since 1973 - so I can figure it out eventually, but just can't do it on-the-spot anymore. And I never really played piano - I did what was required for my Bachelors - but I can futz around nicely for simple songs. I have an old Casio and it has this great '60s garage band Farfisa sound for classics like "96 Tears" and anything by the Young Rascals. I know where it is, but I don't think I touched it in 20 years.

To meet the instrumental requirement for my degree, I played (or rather play with) bassoon. All of us in woodwinds hated the prof and used to do things to annoy him - like play syncopated soul horn parts - wish I had a digital recorder in those days - imagine James brown backed up by horn section consisting of 2 oboes, a clarinet, a flute and me on bassoon.

I also played trombone in high school - still have one - but never got the breathing right. However, if you plug a bassoon mouthpiece into a trombone body, you get an interesting sound - bad, but easier to play than a straight trombone or bassoon. My wife, rest in peace, named it a "tromboon". Besides, who can afford a bassoon? And other than Alfred Hitchcock's theme, where did you ever hear one solo? I still have a bassoon reed, but don't know what happened to the stem (pipe-like thing that goes in between the reed and the bassoon body - and nicely fits into a trombone body).
 

GardMan

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Like many in my (our?) generation, I started out wanting to emulate the Beatles. I still tell my students (tomorrow I start teaching undergrad biology to 350 wannabe docs) that I like standing up and lecturing because it's the closest I'll ever be to being a rock star.

When I was 10-11, I had 2 years of "formal" guitar lessons from a wonderful guy who wanted to make (but never quite made) a living as a club musician, playing easy listening/jazz (if you can say those in the same sentence). From him, I learned to read a little music, the basic chords, and the bars you can play all the way up the neck. When it got to theory, I tuned out (about then, girls became more important). I also discovered that, though my left hand is fairly flexible (how many folk guitarists routinely bar a standard A... 2nd fret, 2-4 strings... with their index finger), it isn't very nimble... meaning too slow for fancy runs or licks. I can strum chords, do some very basic flat picking, and some basic finger picking. All to accompany my singing (which isn't much better than my playing).

In late high school, I bought my first "real" acoustic, the '72 Guild D35 I will never part with, and started getting into folk music. About this time, I taught myself some basic bass runs to pick out as I strummed. During college (and continuing today), I played a lot of traditional folk (Guthries (Woody and Arlo), Ledbelly, Seeger, others), and other "modern" folk balladeers like Gordon Lightfoot, etc.

In grad school and post doc years, I bought a book on fingerpicking for folk guitar, and taught myself a few basic picking patterns (Need to get that book out and finish my lessons).

I was introduced to alternative tunings (drop D and DADGAD) with the music of Stan Rogers, a Canadian folk/singer/songwriter (who died in an Air Canada plane fire in the early 80s), and more recently CGCGCE with Dougie Maclean's music.

So, though I had a couple years of lessons early on, most of my current "style" is picked up from friends, books, listening to others play, or self-taught. Now, forty years later at 51, I am thinking of taking some lessons... but first I need to figure out what I want to learn next... what would add most to my style of playing. Perhaps some bluegrass flat picking... perhaps finger-style... perhaps some blues. I'll be teaching Biology til New Years, so have some time to think about it.
 

dreadnut

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another thing I tell my students and other aspiring guitar players is that it basically all boils down to one word:

Callouses!
 

drowlins

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I got my first guitar- (a Sears Harmony) for Christmas in 1964 when I was 13. We lived out in the sticks, and I'm left-handed so I just flipped the righty guitar over and tried to learn a few chords with the basic book that came with the guitar.
Fast forward to 1968, I bought a Guild M-20 for $50.00 (a 1964 that I still own) and went with a friend to get lessons. As soon as he saw me pick up the guitar he told me "no way- either play right handed or get a left handed guitar", so that was my sole experiance with formal lessons.
In 1969 music books of popular artists began to become available and I bought a Neil Young anthology, and a CS&N book. I studied the chord shapes and got pretty good at basic open chords. The way I play- backward and upside down- is so natural to me that I never had any problem playing.
Military service, marrage, and kids put the ol' box in the closet for twenty years, only occasionaly coming out for a song. Now, with the boys off to collage and retirement looming I got serious about wanting to play again. I went to the library and took out every lesson book I could find- Hal Leanard, the guitar books for dummies, the Maran how to books, and I discovered tabulature on the net. I can play hundreds of country, folk, country rock, rock and celtic songs. I can do open, barre, and just about any chord there is (except maybe jazz) Currently I am on a "Pure Prairie League" jag and have learned most of their hits.
I have played a few gigs for clubs I am in, and seen to get a good response. Last year I joined a bluegrass club and have been learning mandolin and banjo. I can fingerpick fair, rythym strum pretty well and flatpick adequetly. I always look for new books and songs to play-(try "silent Lucidity" by Queensrych, or "From the begining" by EL&P Fairly easy but the audience eats them up) I figure when I retire (in six years) I'll hook up with a group of Geezers and form a bluegrass/folk/country outfit to wile away my golden years. :lol:
 

Mr. P ~

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Well, I started out at age 8 by borrowing a large body Silvertone arch top. The strings were rusty and the action was about 5 miles high. It hurt my fingers so much that I made some pads out of first aid tape and toilette paper. You could guess they didn’t work too well.

At age 11 I got a Japanese Norma guitar. I thing it cost $49.00, but it played great compared to the Silvertone. :roll:

From the Norma I got a Yamaha 12 string, then a Goya 6 string, then the HD-28 Brazilian along with a D-28S, then the Guild D-25, then added the D-40 and the Bluesbird.

During all those years (1960-1985) I learned what little I learned from books. I could read music in Bass Cleff because or 11 years of trombone and church choir.

Finally in ’85 I took lessons for a couple of years from a guy that just took songs I brought in on tape and taught them to me.

Finally in 2003 a guy I work with who has been a pro for 25 years started a guitar club here. He started by teaching us a core group of chords, then he taught us the Nashville Numbering System. Those two things along with the Ron Green Music Dials have put me in the situation where I can now listen to a song and if it is a simple 3 chord song I can pick it out in about 5 minutes.

I suggest:
- Learn (memorize) the three basic bar chord forms and learn the chords they produce.
- Learn (memorize) the Nashville Numbering system.
- Learn (memorize) the Circle of Fifths (or get a Ron Green Music Dial).
- Learn (memorize) at least some basic scales.

Those things will put your boy ahead real quick.

Here is where to check out the music dials. They are fantastic, if you know what key the song is in, then you know the basic 1,4,5 chords and the realative minors.


:roll: http://www.musicdials.com/
 

john_kidder

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West R Lee said:
John, what inspired you to take you first lessons at 52? Anytime I've asked about lessons they want to teach every note on the neck and how those notes make up chords. The thought of that bores me to tears."

West: It was a bit roundabout. I was asked by a couple of friends to join a choir - unlike my guitar playing, my voice works reliably enough. When I got into learning about harmonies (from Dale Rasmussen, a very skilful teacher and leader) , I began for the first time to see how different parts of a tune were put together, how they were in fact chords, and to understand (for example) what a difference it could make to substitute a 9 chord for a 7 chord (this with voices). I'd go home, back to the guitar, and play about with this kind of thing, all still in the first few positions on the fretboard. Then my choir did a few performances, including some old swing tunes, and I was asked to lead the singing every now and then. This caught the attention of Rosemary Campbell (I mention these names in case anyone in the Vancouver area is following this thread), who told me that she was putting together a group for beginning swing guitar.

One lesson with Rosemary and I was hooked - just a few simple moveable chords and the whole guitar was suddenly available, the tunes I'd always played with my "cowboy" chords came alive, and I got interested in the guitar again. That led in turn to learning more ensemble work with other guitarists, some vocal master classes, a few individual lessons in beginning classical and jazz guitar, and now a complete addiction to the whole damn thing.

You're concerned about "teaching every note on the neck and how they make up chords" - for me, I'm still just starting to get familiar with all this, and I'll keep exploring it now, I'm sure, for the rest of my life. Now, for the first time, I can almost freestyle around the guitar, singing as I want to and (mostly) finding the right chords/notes to match. Every now and then I even get a chord progression right just by feel. I can't tell you how exciting this is for me, at this advanced age (you'll remember that I supplied the definition of "geezer" in an earlier thread).

So I repeat my suggestion for your son-in-law - get a handle on those notes all up and down the neck, learn the alphabet of the chords, get the cycles of fifths and fourths and the harmonized major and minor scales together, and he'll be fully armed for a lifetime. I'm not suggesting that the learning-by-doing that we've all experienced won't also give him as much enjoyment as we've all had with guitars over lo these many years. But I do know for certain that his creative abilities, whatever they are, will be vastly enhanced by getting some basics together.

Review the contributions made by Mr. ~P to some of our more technical discussions, and you'll see what I mean. While many of us work very hard to find the words to describe "tone", "balance", "expression", etc., P is armed with years of solid technical training. He's able, as a result, to help the rest of us to put language around concepts, and the language is, as always, the key to understanding. For me, having the very beginnings of the language of music has made an enormous difference to my ability to play with the concepts. So I just recommend it to everyone.

Cheers,
 
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