My first Hoboken!!!

dklsplace

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2001
Messages
3,325
Reaction score
0
I mentioned my latest find in another thread recently. Found this one on craigslist in CA & Fedex delivered a '64 SF II this afternoon.

This one is stripped of hardware & most of the finish. I nearly choked when my wife called today to say there's a beat up old guitar case on the front porch. :shock: No box....just an dirty old SKB case with a shipping label & wrapped with packaging tape in several places. Fortunately, no damage.

The story goes, that the seller's neighbor was the original owner. He didn't play it much, but it was always out of it's case & he was a 2 pack a day Lucky Strike smoker. Apparently the nicotine film was so thick, the headstock logo wasn't visible. With solvent & sanding, years of crud were removed to reveal a prime example of Hoboken craftsmanship.

The good news, it looks like I only need to do minimal prep work & finish sanding before spraying a new lacquer clear coat. The bad news....the neck joint is loose, so this won't go as quickly as I'd hoped. Guess I'll be breaking out the espresso machine tomorrow.
 

Jeff

Enlightened Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
5,990
Reaction score
4
Location
seattle
Close up pictures of fixing the neck would be interesting to see.

Nice project.
 

dklsplace

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2001
Messages
3,325
Reaction score
0
Probably a good thing the neck is coming off. Angle is a bit shallow so it would take some serious bridge shaving to make it a comfy player. I'm also planning a Bigsby so this will work out ok.

Here are "before" pics.
100_0337.jpg

100_0338.jpg

100_0339.jpg

100_0340.jpg

100_0341.jpg

100_0342.jpg




















.
 

dklsplace

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2001
Messages
3,325
Reaction score
0
Anyone have any dead Guild mini humbuckers? The seller said he would send them if he could find them. If not, I have a set of P90's that I believe I can modify to fit a mini base. The only additional holes I plan are for the Bigsby.
 

dklsplace

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2001
Messages
3,325
Reaction score
0
wow....no steam required for this one. Just enough heat to break loose the underside of the neck from the top of the guitar...a little pressure from the jig, & "pop"!
 

Walter Broes

Enlightened Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2005
Messages
5,892
Reaction score
1,962
Location
Antwerp, Belgium
That looks like such a nice project that'll turn out to be a great guitar, congratulations!
You're a brave man for doing that neck reset yourself - not commenting on your skills, just the lack of mine, haha.

I'd be extremely tempted to put DeArmonds on that, I'm almost sure they would cover up those mini-humbucker holes.

Good idea too to increase the neck angle a little, a lot of Starfires I've seen have a pretty shallow factory angle for a Bigsby, and putting a B7 on that would be a shame IMO.
 

dklsplace

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2001
Messages
3,325
Reaction score
0
I gained a lot of confidence in doing neck sets with my M-75. That was the first I had done in my little basement shop with my own tools & hand made jigs. I was pretty happy with the SF in not having to drill through the fret board to apply steam. Also no worries about finish damage on this one!

Funny....I had a set of DeArmond 2k's on hand for at least 3 years before selling them on ebay earlier this year. I'm still holding out for the origianl pups, but I'll keep an eye on ebay in the mean time.
 

dklsplace

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2001
Messages
3,325
Reaction score
0
The neck has been off for nearly a week. Today was the first chance I've had to get back to it & clean up the neck pocket & dovetail. This baby sure is dry! Running into minor delaminating around exposed edges & decided on some elective surgery to make the job a little easier.

Jeff, I can post pics of my progress, but if you're interested in seeing a step by step, I'd have to stage some shots. So far this one has been easier than typical so I've been able to skip some of the normal steps.

Unfortunately, my next 2 days off are going to be spent putting a new roof on a friends place, so my progress isn't keeping up with my original plan. :?
 

dklsplace

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2001
Messages
3,325
Reaction score
0
3 days roofing & my buddy just finished the last bit himself before the rain came last night. Supposed to snow here tomorrow, but I'll be on the road all day again. :?

Been able to spend a little time after the wife & kids are in bed. Neck angle is just about perfect, but needs a touch more. Not too much going on this weekend, so I expect to have the finish prep'd to spray & the neck back on before bed Sunday night!
 

jerrymac

Junior Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2006
Messages
41
Reaction score
0
Location
Palm Springs CA
dklsplace said:
Probably a good thing the neck is coming off. Angle is a bit shallow so it would take some serious bridge shaving to make it a comfy player. I'm also planning a Bigsby so this will work out ok.


Walter Broes said:
Good idea too to increase the neck angle a little, a lot of Starfires I've seen have a pretty shallow factory angle for a Bigsby, and putting a B7 on that would be a shame IMO.

I have a '65 SF III, when I got it the original bridge had been replaced with a TOM. Way, way, way too high, so I got a new Bigsby aluminum bridge (like the original) that worked perfect, great action with the bridge all they way down. BUT, the Bigsby is so high that the strings barely break over the bridge. I don't want to raise the action, it's perfect, but it should have a bit more downward pressure on the bridge. I'm gonna experiment with heavier guage strings next change. Anyway, I figured I'd share my experience with you, and echo that a little more angle might be helpful.
 

dklsplace

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2001
Messages
3,325
Reaction score
0
Anyway, I figured I'd share my experience with you, and echo that a little more angle might be helpful.

Thanks Jerry! Neck angle is perfect, however I've gotten off schedule again. Previous owner obviously used some sort of chemical stripper on the finish & there was some cherry stain slop on much of the binding. As I've gotten down to it, I've discovered that during the original finish work, the factory masked the 3 ply WBW binding so that most of the inside white ply had been stained. In a sense, it appeared to be only 2 ply. So I'm scraping....... :cry: I just love scraping binding. :roll:

Anyway, I want to have body & neck ready for spraying before putting the neck back on.
 

dklsplace

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2001
Messages
3,325
Reaction score
0
Did I mention how much I like scraping binding? :?

Things aren't moving as quickly as I'd hoped, but the end result is going to be well worth the time. I'm not sure exactly what the deal with the binding was, but it seemed as though the solvent that had been used in stripping the finish by the previous owner acted as a hardening agent on the old lacquer. This ended up being multiple rounds of scrubbing the binding with an abrasive pad soaked with a lacquer stripper, which would softened it just enough to get a layer off with the scraper. It's not perfect, but a tremendous improvement!

The neck is back on now & it'll hang for a few days to set up. Watching the weather for the next few days hoping it'll warm up enough to spray my clear coat before next weekend.

One thing I can say about working with the old mahogany neck.....smells like feet. :shock:
 

GuildAAPlayer

Junior Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2006
Messages
46
Reaction score
1
I think it's great to see someone bring an old guitar back to life. Way back about 1968, I bought a used SFIII in Cherry finish. It was about $200 as I recall -- $80 out of my not very deep pockets, and $120 trade-in value for my near mint, early '60s Fender Jazzmaster!

The SFIII had the Bixby and also a Melita bridge with those sliding clips that used to dig into my wrist when I lazily rested my arm in the 'wrong place.'

Anyhow, the Cherry finish was already quite worn so I stripped and sanded it down myself. I restained it in my approximation of a Country Gentleman color, but never did get it looking good enough. Well, sometimes kids do dumb stuff. Eventually, in the mid-70s, I sent it back to Guild and let the factory put on a fresh sunburst finish. (If anybody out there has a Sunburst SFIII with the word "Cherry" written on the inside sticker, perhaps I can fill you in on a bit of your guitar's history.)

So, after my flop at a modest refinishing, I want to extend my compliments to someone with the skills to do a proper neck reset. I'm impressed!

George
 

Jeff

Enlightened Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
5,990
Reaction score
4
Location
seattle
hoping it'll warm up enough to spray my clear coat before next weekend

I feel your pain, I wish I had pictures of my "blue tarp" paint booth creations with questionable propane heaters. Usually around Christmas time when the temp in my unheated garage shop was about 35 degrees.

I don't recommend you try this, but just in case, remember to turn off the heaters before spraying & vent the place pretty darned well before you light them up again. Darned laquer cooks off a second round of volatiles as it dries "flashes"
 

dklsplace

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2001
Messages
3,325
Reaction score
0
Thanks George!

Jeff, I already have plans in place that pretty much echo your blue tarp paint booths. Mine however will use a canvas drop cloth & a kerosene heater in the garage. I'm planning on pre-heating my space, shutting down the heater to spray, then firing it back up as needed until I can bring the guitar back indoors.
 

dklsplace

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2001
Messages
3,325
Reaction score
0
Ok....I said I would be taking lots of progress pics. Here's a bunch, but there's plenty more for my scrapbook. I'll try to put these together in sort of a before & after comparison.

As I said, the neck joint was already loose & this popped off without steam. In the first pic you can see part of the dovetail that had broken loose & still glued into the neck pocket. My "elective surgery" is also pretty obvious. No telling how long the joint had been loose, but the dovetail break didn't look fresh. The only thing holding the neck on was the glue between the fretboard & the top. I'm guessing that this, combined with the extreme dryness accounted for the delaminating I mentioned. Pieces of the top laminate under the fretboard were pretty flakey, so I opted to remove an entire section & repair with some other old mahogany I have on hand. Pic 3 shows the repaired spot as well as the now whole dovetail on the neck.

100_0345a.jpg

100_0349a.jpg

100_0366a.jpg


The next 2 show the condition of the binding. You can see where the mask line was when the finish was applied in the 1st pic so it nearly appeared to be only 2 ply binding instead of 3. The next 2 are after days of scrubbing & scraping.
100_0353a.jpg

100_0354a.jpg


100_0372a.jpg

100_0373a.jpg



The rest are shots I took just tonight after removing the guitar from being clamped for 48 hours after resetting the neck. Compare the color now to the pics I posted when I first received the guitar.
100_0370a.jpg

100_0371a.jpg


These last 2 are shortly after damp wiping a little excess glue from the joints. I just love how easy hide glue cleans up on any exterior!
100_0374a.jpg

100_0375a.jpg


I'm amazed at the amount of stain that was applied to these things. I have a small container of the cherry dust from sanding & I'll reconstitute some of that to even out any spots before the clear coat. I do think I'm going to like this a lot better than the deep cherry it once was. I'm anticipating more of a honey orange flavor when all is said & done.
 

Jeff

Enlightened Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
5,990
Reaction score
4
Location
seattle
shutting down the heater to spray, then firing it back up as needed

You might consider putting the lacquer container & solvent near a light bulb or other heat source & warm it up to (room temp ??, whatever) prior to mixing, Cold lacquer seems to be more viscous & it's difficult to get it to lay flat.

I keep one of these in a convenient location just out of the potential flash range, & close all the open containers of solvents & lacquer. You know, just in case. :shock:

But then I don't really know nuthin bout paintin no guitars.

[img:338:450]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid217/p8c5084c41ab7ce9034ca7df76027d232/ec5c4916.jpg[/img]


What, no sunburst??? :twisted:

Any guess how many coats of clear you'll need to apply to get the result you want? If it was me, I know I'd have to do at least 3 or 4 before the grain filled. Probably more counting dust, runs & other operator screw ups.

It'd be interesting to see the lacquer container.

Nice project. 8)
 

dklsplace

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2001
Messages
3,325
Reaction score
0
Lacquer & solvents kept indoors at room temp.

As far as how many coats...aside from the neck, this wasn't completely stripped so the majority of the grain isn't that porous. Several spots of body binding, however, will probably require special attention & additional layers to even up.

I'm partial to sunbursts, but not crazy about cherry bursts. I do think this will end up looking outstanding!
 

dklsplace

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2001
Messages
3,325
Reaction score
0
Here's the latest on this project.

Plans changed...as I was nearing the point of spraying, my final sandings & wipe downs revealed some pretty serious inconsistencies with the cherry finish. Too much had been chemically stripped in some areas, & other spots were simply saturated is seems. There was just no easy way to get things evened up to my satisfaction, so I stripped as much more as I could, then started the process of bleaching the wood to remove all of the dye.

Then I hurt my back & have had an extended period of down time, not able to do too much at once. Somewhere in there, I started working with a black dye & thought it was going pretty well. Sprayed several coats of a McFaddens tinted lacquer & began wet sanding. Well, the finish looked pretty cool...more of a dark walnut, but after a few coats, the tint made the binding start to look pretty yellow. This binding has been a nearly unending source of frustration. :?
Anyway, I let myself become unhappy with the yellow tint & stripped it all again. Switched to Behlens finish products & I'm liking this stuff much better so far. Going to experiment with my own homebrew tints to age things just enough before finishing with clear.

At this point, several more rounds with the black dye to deepen the finish & here it is with a first sealer coat.

100_0384.jpg

100_0385.jpg
 
Top