Aristocrat Serial Number Location and Factory Void Repair

matsickma

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Hi LTG Gang,

This is probably a question for Han's but I'll post it for all to comment.

I have an old Aristocrat that was pretty beat up when I got it. Based on the headstock finish it is mid to late 1950's. It has been in a state of refinshing for quite a while and likely won't be finished until next year.

The origional spruce top finish was not the normal Blond or Sunburst. This guitar had a wicker white or cream color finish that was very beat up. The pickguard had long been removed and the finish from strumming the guitar was worn through the finish and significantly into the wood.

Now there are two things about this guitar that are a little unusual. However over the last few years I have seen guitars for sale on eBay that indicated my guitar is not alone with these quarky features but they are not that common.

Feature 1: The Serial Number location. On my Aristocrat the SN is NOT stamped on the back of the headstock. It is stamped on the bottom of the guitar and is hidden under the Guild Harp bracket by the strap lock. I have seen this feature one time before when a guy from New England was trying to sell a pretty nice Blond Aristocrat on ebay for around $4000. (This was about 4 years ago when Aristocrats were around $2000 . It posted for few months and was finally pulled.)

Feature 2: When the finish on the front of the my Aristocrat was removed down to the wood I noticed that there are two place on the front where some kind of void or repair was made. It looks like another piece of wood was fitted into the spruce top. One repair was on the upper bass bout near but not at the pickup selector switch. It is about an inch wide and three inches long. A second area is under and to the right of the neck pickup hole. It was very well done and by touch you would never feel it.

I beleive it was done at the Guild factory when the guitar was made. You can easily see the wood grain difference.

Last month on Sept 4 an 1957 Aristocrat refinshed body sold on ebay (280022743281) and it had a similar "repair" job showing up on the cutaway area on the front of the guitar starting near the pickup cutout. (This guitar also did not appear to have a SN on the headstock but it was all refinshed so could have been sanded away.) Also last summer a refinshed X-175 (I think) sold on eBay and it also showed void areas that looked like repairs. A few of you may have commented on this forum about this guitar and strange marks or voids.

I am not suprised that Guild would repair a wood void on a guitar at the factory and apply a finish that would hide the imperfection. My suspicions seem to be confirmed with my guitar. Also I have seen at least one other Aristocrat that had a custom finish (Gold) where you could not see the base wood.

Has anyone else come across an unusual SN marking condition or factory void repair of an Aristocrat or other Guild guitar?

Thanks,

M
 

jerrymac

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Re: Aristocrat Serial Number Location and Factory Void Repai

matsickma said:
...Last month on Sept 4 an 1957 Aristocrat refinshed body sold on ebay (280022743281) and it had a similar "repair" job showing up on the cutaway area on the front of the guitar starting near the pickup cutout. (This guitar also did not appear to have a SN on the headstock but it was all refinshed so could have been sanded away.) M

Hi M,

That would be my Aristocat. As you noted, the serial # is gone, but it's not a '57 as the seller stated. Based on the GUILD inlay, it's a '54 or maybe '55 according to Hans' excellent book.

Regarding the void, here's my take based on my 'cat. My top is actually a 4 piece laminate (seen through the pickup routes). It looks like Spruce-Maple-Spruce-Maple. The top layer of Spruce is equal in thickness to the other three as seen in the route, but would be somewhat thinner in the areas by the switch or pickguard that you noted. I think when people sanded the tops down, they went a little too far where the top was already thin and exposed a bit of the second layer.
 

matsickma

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Hi jerrymac,

I examined the pickup routes on my Aristocrat and I could not identify any lamination of the wood on the top of my guitar. It looks like a solid piece of spruce to me. I'll need to get a magnifying glass to examine it more closely.

Did you notice any serialization marks or numbers on the bottom of the guitar near the bottom strap fastener?

Thanks,
M
 

jerrymac

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matsickma said:
Hi jerrymac,

I examined the pickup routes on my Aristocrat and I could not identify any lamination of the wood on the top of my guitar. It looks like a solid piece of spruce to me. I'll need to get a magnifying glass to examine it more closely.

Did you notice any serialization marks or numbers on the bottom of the guitar near the bottom strap fastener?

Thanks,
M

Here's a photo of the routing:

[img:682:199]http://home.earthlink.net/~jkmcleer/Guitars/aristosmsms.jpg[/img]

It looks like SMSMS to me. When I bought it off eBay, it was advertised as a 1957 but I think it's a very early Aristocrat circa 1954 judging by the logo. Maybe Hans could chime in, 'cos I always thought the tops were solid spruce.

I can not find a serial #, but it has been sanded down. I will post photos when the project's completed, my guess is two weeks.
 

matsickma

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Hi jerrymac,

Your picture clearly shows the lamination. I never knew spruce tops were laminations. My guitar has the origional hole cutout and it doesn't reveal any layers. It must be obscured by some old finish. Does your bridge pup hole also show the lamination?

What are your finish plans for the 'cat?

M
 

jerrymac

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matsickma said:
Hi jerrymac,

Your picture clearly shows the lamination. I never knew spruce tops were laminations. My guitar has the origional hole cutout and it doesn't reveal any layers. It must be obscured by some old finish. Does your bridge pup hole also show the lamination?

What are your finish plans for the 'cat?

M

Yes it does, although it was not as obvious on the original route (the neck route was enlarged for a humbucker when I got it). There was some substance (looked like sanding sealer) that covered it.

The finish is almost done. The neck was already finished, except fot the headstock. The GUILD logo was about 1/16" higher than the sanded down wood, so I built it up with epoxy and finished it with black lacquer. The body will remain in it's natural glory, with a couple of thin coats of wipe-on polyurethane. The back and sides are already done, I might start the top today.

Here's a photo of the headstock (after & before) showing the logo:

[img:384:277]http://home.earthlink.net/~jkmcleer/Guitars/acathead.jpg[/img]

I will post photos when it's done. Take care.
 
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