Hollow Body vs. Semi Hollow Body

california

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Honest almost naieve question -- how does a semi hollow body differ from a true hollow body, what are the differences, pros, cons, etc.

I know that opinion will rule on this one so let 'em rip!
 

Squawk

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Generally, semi-hollow bodies refer to those archtops with thin bodies and a solid center block a few inches thick running through the body. Advantages are less feedback and more sustain than a hollow body as the guitar functions more or less like a solid body with hollow wings. So it has the disadvantages of a tinny acoustic sound and heavy to hold. The design is credited to Gibson's ES-335 and is used in many models, including the Guild Starfire IV.

Hollow bodies are more varied in design, but generally are 3" or more in thickness, though thin models, like the Starfire III, have no blocks. Some archtops, like the X170, have a smaller block that is fitted between the top and back under the bridge. This reduces feedback while compromising the acoustic sound a little.

The other extreme is to design the archtop with as little obstruction to the acoustic sound as possible. These are primarily jazz guitars where the pickup is "floating" - that is, mounted to the fingerboard so it doesn't touch the top. Tone and volume controls are mounted on the pickguard as well.
 

Darryl Hattenhauer

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Squawk nailed it. The only thing I'd add is that the soundblock on a startfire 4 or five Is sort of like a continuation of the neck, something like the way a banjo has an extension of the neck.

The advantage to a starfire 4 or 5, or a Gibbon 335, is versatility. You can get tone close to a hollowbody and close to a solidbody like a bluesbird or a Les Appal.


Squawk,

I didn't know the reason for the sliding pickup. And I didn't know about the X170. Is the wood under the bridge called a "soundpost"?
 

california

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Thanks Darryl,

I learned a bit of the difference yesterday when playing a friend's hollowbody in my livingroom -- feedback in small spaces. With volume cranked up on my guitar, no problem. On the hollowbody jazz guitar -- nearly broke the windows.

Now on to the pickups -- the original single coils on my guitar are nice but a little muddy. Looking for PUs that will brighten things up a bit but fit like originals. Shouldn't be too much of a problem since most of the DeArmonds used by Guild and Gretsch were the same shape and size.
 

Darryl Hattenhauer

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Be careful about changing pickups. If you have an old guitar with DeArmond or P90 pickups, you'd probably lower the value. I'd really try to avoid cutting any wood away to get another PU in.

What make, model year, and pickups do you have?
 

california

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Thanks Darryl,

It is an all original 1999 Korean DeArmond Starfire Special with the original single coil DeArmond pickups. A nearly exact gopy of the Guild Starfire (one notable exception being the pickups), these DeArmonds were built in Korea, then sent to Corona where the US made pickups were installed. I've looked closely at pictures of DeArmond 2000's and others made for Guild and they appear to be the same size. If I changed them out, it would be only if I needed to do zero modification, and I'd save all the originals.

I've tried the guitar in a couple of amps, all with the same results. Bass wants to overmodulate, and adjusting screws are set all the way down on neck and bridge pickups.
 

jerrymac

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california91207 said:
Now on to the pickups -- the original single coils on my guitar are nice but a little muddy. Looking for PUs that will brighten things up a bit but fit like originals. Shouldn't be too much of a problem since most of the DeArmonds used by Guild and Gretsch were the same shape and size.

The DeA SF Special is a really nice guitar, I had one a couple of years ago. The 2K pups are beefy, more P-90 than DeA twangy. The DeA 2000s are more Gretschy sounding, in fact Fender used them on some of the Gretsch Electromatic hollowbodies. Or the real Dynasonics would make you SF really come to life. But even though they might have the same footprint, I believe the pole pieces extend further into the body on some of the pickups, so you might have to deepen the pickup routes depending on which pickup you use. I'm not certain, but you might want to check it out before you make a decision. Good luck.
 

dklsplace

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Speaking of the DeA sized pickups....I've been on the lookout since receiving my '64 Starfire project. Previous owner said he would send the mini-humbuckers if he could find them, but I'm not holding my breath.

I did just discover in talking with my rep the other day that we now carry Filtertrons. Should be the same footprint, but I'm not sure I'm going to try them. They typically have a pretty low impedance.
 

Squawk

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Darryl -

I never noticed the vertical block in my X170 - Hans brought it to my attention when I asked a general question why my X170 has less feedback than my Starfire III - generally, for hollow bodies, the wider the body, the more the feedback, but this block (maybe it is called a spoundpost) obviously works.

One manufacturer of archtops who plays these issues out is Hofner. I own one - a 2000-something Vice-President. It is a true hollow body, but has a pair of high quality humbuckers - the neck is floating while the bridge is surfact mounted - so you can get a wide variety of tone and a great acoustic tone as well. It's a full 25.5" scale with 24 frets and a cutaway to reach them - yet it is very tradutional vilion-looking. It also has a solid one-piece carved spruce top without binding - looking at the spruce grain through the f-holes actually distracts my playing. While I like both my Hofner and X170, I must admit the Hofner's acoustic tone and volume are superior.

Also, Hofner's VeryThin series claims to use a block system that does not rob from the acoustic tone - never had the opportunity to try one.

Don - are Filtrons made in Japan these days?
 

dklsplace

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Don - are Filtrons made in Japan these days?

I have no idea, but since they are the genuine Fender/Gretsch pickups, I'd say it's a fair bet they're made overseas.
 

fretplay

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Intersting Squawk, I have a Hofner Verithin but a 1965 model. This is a true hollow body it is like a Gibson ES 330 or the famous Epiphone Casino played by John Lennon but only 1 3/4 in width and very light.

These guitars are greatly under valued, hand made in Germany maple body and even now after 41 years no cracking on the lacquer, tell me where a can find that on a 60s guitar even my Gibson J45 1975 can't say that. With an amp you get that Beatles sound and without still a clear acoustic sound. Best hollow body by far. Sorry mind's not for sale but if you can pick one up you wont be disappionted.

Regards,

Fretplay
 

Squawk

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Fret -

And I understand the one's they're making now with the center block are also great. But I am trying to downsize - and trying to control my GAS is very difficult (but unfortunately necessary).

BTW, there's a nice independent (like LTG) Hofner forum at http://www.hofners.co.uk/
 

fretplay

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Hi Squawk,

Yes I believe they are nice guitars but more like the Gibson ES 335 with the sustain block. The 60s guitar is a different animal, intersting that it was just the ES 335 market Hofner were trying to get but failed.
 
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