Song writing

Graham

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I hope this thread is enlightening to some and many people have things to offer to it.

I think it is a very difficult thing to do, but I know that several folks here have written their own song before, so I'm looking for some pointers and advice.

My main objective here was to put to music a poem that I wrote for my wife when we were dating back in 1980. Next year will be our 25th wedding anniversary and talk about scoring major points with the misses!! :D

I reread the poem the other day, my wife had it framed and hanging on a wall ever since I can remember. It needs some tightening up grammatically and all that, I mean I was 19 when I wrote it, not that having bad grammer after completing High School is anything to boast about, but it sounds kind of hokey here and there.

I don't know the first thing about writing a song. Do you start with lyrics? Do you have a riff that just comes to you and your creative juices run away with it?

I also suspect that every chord progression imaginable has already been done and recorded, so coming up with an original sound could also be a challenge.

There you have it, still more slow nights in Ontario allowing me the chance to seek out the expertise and jabs of this great community.

Graham
 

Jeff

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Sorry Graham,

I couldn't possibly give advice without reading the lyrics. :twisted: Songwriting is pretty serious business.

First you would have to set the mood by selecting the key. Check out John Kidders post a while back:

I'm kind of curious just what kind of a courtship was going on.

John Wrote: Properties of the Modes

C-Major Gay and warlike
C-Minor Obscure and sad
D-Minor Grave and pious
D-Major Joyous and very warlike
E-Minor Effeminate, amorous and plaintive
E-Major Quarrelsome and peevish
Eb-Major Cruel and severe
F-Major Furious and quick-tempered
F-Minor Obscure and plaintive
G-Major Quietly joyful
G-Minor Serious and magnificent
A-Minor Tender and plaintive
A-Major Joyous and pastoral
Bb-Major Magnificent and joyous
Bb-Minor Obscure and terrifying
B-Minor Lonely and melancholy
B-Major Severe and plaintive
 

West R Lee

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Well good luck to you Graham, you can do this. The first 5 or ten times I played the song I wrote for my wife, she cried. To this day, when I am playing, she may be in the kitchen or working in her office, but I can always tell when I play it, she stops what she's doing and listens. Might be the best gift you've ever given her. I don't know how many times she has commented that she bets not too many wives have had songs for them written by their husband.

Writing to me has just got to be pure feel. With me on this one, it was just there. I've heard many pros talk about racking their brains to come up with a song, then they are in the shower, or driving down the road, and bam, there it is. That's what happened with me. As I said in an earlier post, the chords G, Em, C and D followed by C, D and G just happened. Then Alan Jackson stole them for "Remember When"! I'm thinking of suing. He stole the first 4 chords, not the last 3. So many songs, many times by the same artist are the same chord progression. Don't give that a thought. Use simple chords and just do it, like Nike says.

It will happen....just say the words over and over while you are playing and something will fit. Don't get discouraged.

I just got home from playing the Christmas party at the nursing home. Place was packed with nowhere to park. I had to walk a ways with my DV72. Then when I got in there, after a feast of a lunch, there were only 2 of us that showed. 82 year old Mr. Waldron and I played for 2 hours alternating songs. My voice is raspy and my fingers are tired, but it was a blast.

West
 

Graham

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Jeff said:
Sorry Graham,

I couldn't possibly give advice without reading the lyrics. :twisted: Songwriting is pretty serious business.

First you would have to set the mood by selecting the key. Check out John Kidders post a while back:

I'm kind of curious just what kind of a courtship was going on.

John Wrote: Properties of the Modes

C-Major Gay and warlike
C-Minor Obscure and sad
D-Minor Grave and pious
D-Major Joyous and very warlike
E-Minor Effeminate, amorous and plaintive
E-Major Quarrelsome and peevish
Eb-Major Cruel and severe
F-Major Furious and quick-tempered
F-Minor Obscure and plaintive
G-Major Quietly joyful
G-Minor Serious and magnificent
A-Minor Tender and plaintive
A-Major Joyous and pastoral
Bb-Major Magnificent and joyous
Bb-Minor Obscure and terrifying
B-Minor Lonely and melancholy
B-Major Severe and plaintive

Thanks Jeff, that is a very good looking properties perspective.

Like I said I was 19 so I guess it will start out in E-Minor, 25 years later we're at E-Major so i just need to fill in the rest. :shock:

Kind of courtship? Just the regular pitching woo type, I guess. :twisted:

I was thinking about posting the poem, and I may do that if this thing bogs, but I do have several months to get it worked out, and who knows, it may just come.

Queenie said:
The first 5 or ten times I played the song I wrote for my wife, she cried.

I seem to have that part down, every time I play the guitar not only does my wife cry but the kids too. The dog just goes upstairs, probably doesn't want to look like a baby. :shock:

Graham
 

Jeff

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Graham,

I got a sappy song about my Granddaughter that usually puts the Redhead in a nice mood when I play around with it.

I'll go first just a soon as I can figure out hows to place the chord symbols in the text.
 

fungusyoung

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Graham said:
I don't know the first thing about writing a song. Do you start with lyrics? Do you have a riff that just comes to you and your creative juices run away with it?

I also suspect that every chord progression imaginable has already been done and recorded, so coming up with an original sound could also be a challenge.

Graham



By no means am I an authority, Graham, but I'll try to share a few things I've learned as a novice songwriter.

I've written songs both by starting with lyrics and also by coming up with a cool riff and running with it. You have a nice head start if you already have a poem written. If you don't want to use the poem verbatim, you can target specific lines you want to use from it or even refer back to lines from it and combine those thoughts with how you feel today.

In terms of the structure, see if you can break the poem (or the modified version of it) into a few verses and a common chorus. If it's real short and you want something longer just repeat a verse or two at the end. I often just use 4 lines in each verse and maybe 3- 4 verses and repeat the chorus 2 or 3 times, but do whatever works.

The trick is to find a chord sequence and tempo that works with the verse and your voice. I'm a simpleton so my verses tend to be very straight forward and same-ish (like D / A / G / D.... or G / C / D / G, etc.). Merging the verse into a chorus is cool because it normally takes some time to figure out how you want the mood or the thrust of the song to change at that point. Introduce some new chords. Maybe change the strumming pattern or even the tempo. If you have more guitar parts than you need, you can always toss in a pre-chorus or a bridge. You will know the chorus is right when it feels great to break into it and also to shift back from it into the next verse.

Keep it simple. It doesn't matter if the chord progressions have already been used thousands of times before. They will be again too, but your song will be yours and yours alone because it's based on something very special and historical.

Good luck, and have fun!
 

RussD

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If I may, I can pass on a few of my favorite tips from (too many) workshops:

For lyrics, starting by writing down every word that relates to your subject and message is a great brain-storming method that will jump-start some phrases. It also comes in handy 1/2 way through a rhyme search.
Use a rhyming dictionary available online. It can also provide some funny wordplay.
Strive to evoke emotion.
Try not to give a fact, but to present a picture that paints that fact.

For music, a couple of housand years of writing already defined sunny moods as major chords and darker moods represented by minors.

Once you have a few lyrics, try humming a tune without an instrument first.

I bet a lot of folks here would jump in with help and suggestions if you get stuck!
 

Graham

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Thanks again guys, you're the best.

I'm still working it, have been re-writing it. Moving away from a verbatim repeat of the poem and expressing more feeling and emotion through the years.
 

JerryR

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I've only written a few songs - a couple came to me as wors and music, but the rest were trying to put music to some old poems written when I was young and foolish :oops: The most recent finished one started life as a two verse poem back in 1971 - a sad tale of unrequited love :( This was obviously too short and depressing for a song, so I wrote a third verse to resolve it with a positive ending and the music in September last year :) It's called the Mourning Morning Mist, and some people even said they liked it :!:
 

krysh

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hey graham,

this is a wonderful idea, your wife will love you for doing this.

I am not a supersongwriter, too, but I write songs from time to time.
May be it will help if I try to tell how I try to write songs.
Like the others already mentioned, it may be easier to begin, if someone - like you do - has already got some lyrics. from time to time songs just happen.It seems as if they are just around and sometimes you can write down a complete songe in half an our, sometimes it needs years to finish one.

For me it is easier to write music to already finished lyrics.
With lyrics you should already have some poetic metre. This can lead you to a possible beat, which is where I often begin. But when there is no possibility to begin with a drum beat, I start strumming some chords and try to find some background for the lyrics. You might use a metronome to find the right tempo and feel. Then I try to find some vocal lines on the chords and most of the time some structure arises if you try it for a little while.

there is no formula, but most of the great songs have a real simple structure and can be reduced to three chords - more is just arrangement :wink: . as some of the others mentioned, just keep it simple.

my 2 cents

all the best

michael
 

krysh

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Ok, some of you may already know a few of my silly tunes,
but here is the link to my
soundclick-player
I appreciate any comments.

My example for a very simple song is "I want you to be true":
-only 5 chords
-simple vocal line
-no bridge
-verse and chorus are basically the same just played with a different feel
-only the last choruses vary slightly in chords.
I hope the english lyrics are not too bad, because my english is far away from being perfect :oops: .

btw graham, I did not really get what you wanted to tell me with you nice picture in my introduction post. was it wayne and garth, and why the black frame araund the pic? I ain't dead yet :wink:

enloy and all the best

michael
 

Graham

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krysh said:
btw graham, I did not really get what you wanted to tell me with you nice picture in my introduction post. was it wayne and garth, and why the black frame araund the pic? I ain't dead yet :wink:

enloy and all the best

michael

Yes, Michael, it was Wayne and Garth. Just very impressed with the playroom and all of the work done on your music and site being completed, mostly by you.

As for the black frame, my appologies if the colour is in reference the the departed, kinda spooky really, I changed it.
 

krysh

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Graham said:
Yes, Michael, it was Wayne and Garth. Just very impressed with the playroom and all of the work done on your music and site being completed, mostly by you.

:oops: Thanks a lot Graham, it is always wonderful if someone likes what your heart told you to do... :D


Graham said:
As for the black frame, my appologies if the colour is in reference the the departed, kinda spooky really, I changed it.

apologies accepted of course. yes, it was a bit spooky but looks much better now. you really do a great job with your pictures. Thanks again :D

all the best

michael
 

JerryR

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Guildmark said:
It is now imperative for you guys to record and post these songs. :x

Yeah - but what's the process :? I don't have any recording gear - I know of someone who has a recording studio (for a fee) - do I get a CD recorded then load it up somewhere :?: Or can you recommend so simple recording device to burn a CD on. Years ago I tried it on little portable tape recorders and it always sounded tinny (cellphone even worse - tried that as an experiment the other day) :(

Once recorded, is the somewhere to upload You Tube - or does LetsTalkGuildhave a facility to upload :? :? (Think I'll need technical help from my eldest son there, either way :!: )

Only ever played my stuff live at the Folk Clubs - not enough of my own stuff for a CD on its own so I would have to pad it with some of the other stuff I do :roll:
 
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