The Electrics Tirade

Charlie Vegas

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How FMIC can be so brilliant with their handling of Gretsch and have their heads so far up their collective asses with Guild is beyond me. Sorry but another NAMM has come and gone and still no electrics. What the f***! I couldn’t give a god damn about some Chinese made GADs or Tacoma’s masquerading as Guilds. I want to see the electrics.

The small but mighty Guild has been reduced to nothing more then a name for some marking weenie. I don’t know if Donnie Wade is still in charge, but whoever is needs get off their duff. During the tenure of Bill Acton they were making some good electrics, but I also don’t remember much of an FMIC marking campaign promoting them. It was this lack of marketing that doomed sales of Guild and DeArmond electrics.

The initial purchase of Guild could’ve been a good thing. That gave FMIC two things they didn’t have, a recognizable name in archtops and acoustics. But closing the Guild factory was their death sentence. And if closing the factory was their death sentence, the FMIC deal with Gretsch was their executioner. Well, at least it was for the electrics. Gretsch has much more name recognition with endorsement deals with Setzer and such so who needs Guild archtops? Right? WRONG! Maybe if they treated Guild like Mike Lewis treats Gretsch good things could happen. Let’s start with vintage correct guitars. A complete line of hollow body electrics with DeArmond 200’s (not 2000’s or 2K’s) and re-introduced Franz pickups.

I know I’m preaching to the choir but maybe, just maybe, someone at FMIC reads what we write. Mike Lewis frequently looks-in at gretschpages.com and takes their comments seriously. So come on Donnie or whoever’s in charge, you want to sell some guitars, give us something worth buying!

OK, I’m gonna take a valium and a nap now.
 

Walter Broes

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I agree. It's sort of nice to see F30's and F40's again (although I'm not crazy about the headstocks and the black binding), but the lack of electrics is just plain weird.
 

california

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It is odd -- after the move to Corona they built some BluesBirds and Blues 90's for a year or two, they "reintroduced" the X-500 for a while, and an X-165, Rockabilly. The one thing that would have made sense was for them to continue producing electric Guilds in Corona, a factory known for its electric output.
 

Charlie Vegas

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Here it is almost 4 years since my last tirade and since then FMIC has bought another factory (Ovation/Kaman) and closed another factory (Tacoma) and what does the buying public have to show for it…still no Guild electric archtops.

Check eBay and try to find a Guild Rockabilly or P-90 equipped X500. Ain’t gonna happen. People are holding on to these guitars. There’s a demand for single coil archtops. BRING BACK HISTORICALLY CORRECT GUILDS WITH DEARMOND AND FRANZ PICKUPS OR BRING ME THE HEAD OF WHOEVER IS THEIR CURRENT MARKETING MANAGER!
 

chazmo

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Welcome back, Charlie.

I don't think your words are lost on Guild management (although I suspect they were 3 years ago), and you are definitely not alone -- especially around here.

This past spring we met with the Fender / KMC folks in New Hartford (and the Guild product manager from Fender) to get a grand tour of the "new" facility, and the bottom line is that they feel now is a bad time to try to break back into the electric market. The low prices of used Guild electric gear were cited as creating a particularly challenging time right now to make a comeback. That said, it seems to me now that the entire used instrument market is sagging, not just the leccies. I'm not sure how anyone is selling new, premium gear.

They definitely have the expertise to build these things, Charlie; make no mistake about that. And, I can also assure you that these guys in New Hartford, who have the Hamer legacy behind them, would really love to do it. Maybe we'll see some limited edition reissues. I don't know. Stay tuned.
 

Brad Little

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Charlie Vegas said:
How FMIC can be so brilliant with their handling of Gretsch and have their heads so far up their collective asses with Guild is beyond me.
FMIC does not own Gretsch, merely distributes them. Production and model choices are made by Gretsch and built to their specs. If Guild were in the same situation, it might be similar, but they are not.
Personally, I think that the introduction of one or two high end archtops would be a good place to start. An updated Artist Award, always produced in numbers that New Hartford could probably accommodate, would compete nicely in the boutique archtop market that seems to be thriving these days.
If producing solid bodies or laminated archtops would push New Hartford beyond capacity, maybe they could resume production of these styles in Corona. It wouldn't be the only company with electrics made in a different location from acoustics.
Brad
 

Charlie Vegas

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Brad Little said:
FMIC does not own Gretsch, merely distributes them. Production and model choices are made by Gretsch and built to their specs.
So not true. While FMIC doesn't own Gretsch, there agreement allows them full marketing and production control. Fred Gretsch has ownership and oversite, but FMIC is steering this ship.
 

Charlie Vegas

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Brad Little said:
Personally, I think that the introduction of one or two high end archtops would be a good place to start. An updated Artist Award, always produced in numbers that New Hartford could probably accommodate, would compete nicely in the boutique archtop market that seems to be thriving these days.
I don't think FMIC is interested in trying to sell a few upscale boutique archtops to a handful of jazzers. They're interested in volume sales. Like Gretsch, they need a guitar that would appeal to the masses. An affordable X550 with vintage appointments, Bigsby, and re-introduced Frans pups would be a great start.
 

fronobulax

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Charlie Vegas said:
I don't think FMIC is interested in trying to sell a few upscale boutique archtops to a handful of jazzers. They're interested in volume sales.
While you are entitled to your opinion, that does not seem to be the current strategy for Guild acoustics made in America. Perhaps we just have a different idea of how many guitars constitute "volume".

That said, it seems that one component of a strategy for Guild electrics would have to include no direct competition with existing products in the FMIC stable. An X-550 would be a good choice based on that criterion. Any other suggestions?
 

stclrob

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fronobulax said:
That said, it seems that one component of a strategy for Guild electrics would have to include no direct competition with existing products in the FMIC stable. An X-550 would be a good choice based on that criterion. Any other suggestions?
S-100 :D :D :D
 

Brad Little

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Charlie Vegas said:
So not true. While FMIC doesn't own Gretsch, there agreement allows them full marketing and production control. Fred Gretsch has ownership and oversite, but FMIC is steering this ship.
Okay, I thought I read someplace that he was making model decisions, must be a senior moment. :oops:
Brad
 

chazmo

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fronobulax said:
Charlie Vegas said:
I don't think FMIC is interested in trying to sell a few upscale boutique archtops to a handful of jazzers. They're interested in volume sales.
While you are entitled to your opinion, that does not seem to be the current strategy for Guild acoustics made in America. Perhaps we just have a different idea of how many guitars constitute "volume".

That said, it seems that one component of a strategy for Guild electrics would have to include no direct competition with existing products in the FMIC stable. An X-550 would be a good choice based on that criterion. Any other suggestions?
Yeah, Charlie.... What Frono said about "brand placement" is what we heard from the Guild folks in April... that is, regarding the Guild acoustics coming out of New Hartford today. As I mentioned, they're very worried about the depressed/glut state of the used market causing an unfavorable re-introduction of electrics.

At the time, I was hopeful that we'd see something in this space around now or maybe early next year, but I don't know. The situation in the used market doesn't seem to be improving (or likely to) any time soon.

Anyway, we can hope! :)
 

Brad Little

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Chazmo said:
As I mentioned, they're very worried about the depressed/glut state of the used market causing an unfavorable re-introduction of electrics....The situation in the used market doesn't seem to be improving (or likely to) any time soon.
Since it would seem to be tied to the economy and unemployment rate, it might be a while. I read an article over the weekend that many economists are predicting 2014 before unemployment gets back down to 5%. Probably won't be too much earlier than that before guitar sales pickup. Of course, they could be wrong and it will be a lot sooner-or later-than that.
Brad
 

Charlie Vegas

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Chazmo said:
depressed/glut state of the used market causing an unfavorable re-introduction of electrics.
Somebody show me a glut of single coil Guilds.

The economy isn't hampering the introduction of new Gretsch guitars.
 

chazmo

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Charlie Vegas said:
Chazmo said:
depressed/glut state of the used market causing an unfavorable re-introduction of electrics.
Somebody show me a glut of single coil Guilds.

The economy isn't hampering the introduction of new Gretsch guitars.
Fair enough. Maybe Guild will hear you this time, Charlie. :) Stay tuned.
 

MojoTooth

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Bring back the Starfire, especially a Starfire IV with P90's!
 

magicpauley73

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also bring back the rockabilly or the SF3 there's too many gretsch players ,if there was a high profile user of guild electrics then maybe , just maybe?
why didn't they ever do a Buddy Guy starfire iv model ?
 

northbayj

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Charlie Vegas said:
Chazmo said:
depressed/glut state of the used market causing an unfavorable re-introduction of electrics.
Somebody show me a glut of single coil Guilds.

The economy isn't hampering the introduction of new Gretsch guitars.


I'm sympatico, but the new Gretsches are all produced in Asia, aren't they? I'm a bit relieved that FMIC hasn't turned the Guild archtop line in the Ibanez Artcore line, or turned it into Epiphone. Like it or not, a '59 Chet Atkins is going to go for what - upwards of $10k at least. A nice Franz-era jazzer is less than half that most of the time, and the Hoboken and Corona archtops are more accessible than that. The demand implied by the nameplate is that Guild is the less desirable brand. Present company excluded, of course.

The situation sucks - I would love to have a p90 X500, one of the 1990s/early 2000s models - or at least access to a market for one. It looks like the FMIC folks are sitting on the Guild brand until better times. Guild is, after all, their ace card if and when they decide they want to directly competing with Gibson in the market for full hollowbody / archtop American-made guitars. Stupid for them to not be laying the groundwork for that kind of direct competition right now? I'd say yes, but I'm not in the guitar business, so I should probably shut up.
 

magicpauley73

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i'm on the understanding that most of the gretsch line is built in japan because of they're consistent and the quality compared t the american made one s made before were a bit hit and miss , Guilds have always been better due to not having corporate pressures that FMIC and Gibson put on quality control , shame that prices don't reflect that , why is an average ES 335 cost in Uk about £2000 upwards and a vintage one 3k to anything 25 , 30k yet not always going to be superbly built ?
i bought a Dearmond starfire in '97 and it was the best i could afford , friends had epiphones at the time , ( casino , sheratons etc) I though i had the better looking and sounding instrument and playing the competition i'm glad i've stayed with Guild , I bought my Starfire IV as an upgrade , ( wish i'd kept the dearmond version as well , but needed the cash )
i still don't know why FMIC used the starfire in the squier line it was as we say PANTS!!
i say bring back the duane eddy edition , only so i can play rebel rouser on it and grin like a child in a candy store !
 
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