Guild Thundnerstar

california

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Does anyone have any experience with a Thunderstar that they can share? There's a vry clean '69 model available nearby that looks very appealing.
 

matsickma

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Hi Cal,

This amp uses a pair of 7591A power tubes. These sound great when cranked.

My Thunderstar has been acting up lately. However when working properly it sounded great particularly at higher volume. These ams age good for about 30W- 35W. The 7591A breakup nicely and with more of a bite than EL84's.

This combo has a single 12" speaker(not bad sounding but I swapped mine out for an Altec) in a closed cavity. The Preamp section is the same as the '69 Superstar and Thunderbird. The main difference here is the power amp which uses the 7591A's.

Guild used the 7591's in the beige two tone Thunderbird, the 2 style mlack Thunderbird with 2-12's, the Maverick amp with 2-10's and the Thunderstar.

Hey, if it is in good shape and you don't have to pay shipping (these amps are heavy) you can't go wrong. The cabinet design of this amp is superior to the earlier Thunderbird amp that John Kidder had trouble with. I don't think you could easily break the cabinet.

How much do they want for it?

Matsickma
 

matsickma

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Sorry for all my misspellings in my last message. I was rushing to meeting.

$400 is a high price particularly if you decide to re-sell the amp. I don't think $400 is a bad price for a point-to-point wiring tube amp like the Thunderstar but in general they do not sell a top price. These amps are not well known so demand is low. It would be best if you could check it out before you would buy it.

M
 

capnjuan

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Guild amps don't get much respect; this one is a Thunderbird:

[IMG:550:429]http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r106/capnjuan/GuildThunderbird01.jpg[/img]

Going around again; same opening bid / BIN:

http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-VINTAGE-GUILD- ... dZViewItem
Believed to be similar to John K's 7591 model; same self-destructing particle board cabinet w/ metal trim concealing joint between stick-em side panels and front edge. Sound quality aside, Guild didn't help it's reputation with its cheesy cabinets.
 

matsickma

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It is hard to figure out what Guild was thinking when it issued the Thunderbird amp with such a marginal cabinet. In the earlier years Guild amps were constructed with materials and a method comparable or better to others of the time. Is it possible that these materials were introduced around this time and that Guild thought they may be superior to standard wood?

In the period of around 1965 to early 1967 the cabinets designs are inferior. Aside from that period they are quite good. The late 1960's cabinets use excellent materials and construction techniques.

A point of note is in the 1965 to early 1967 period the Guild amps certaintly look 1960's "modern" with the metal edges, walnut wood stick paper like paneling sides and two tone grill. As much as I dislike the construction technique I really like the retro look. The look is consistent with the infamious picture of a guy in a suit playing a Thunderbird along with a woman playing a Jetstar S50 with white gloves! That image was firmly locked in my mind about represented the Guild image at that time.

That is the period I started playing and owned my first Guild (S-50). When I would go to the music store (called Everets) for my lessons they would have the beige/walnut woodgrain Thunderbird, Thunder1 and Thunderbass amps in the show room. I have a perverse visual fondness for these amps to this day.

M
 

ThunderCat

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ya

I like the look of my Thunderstar Bass, cool logo. I am waiting for the post office to deliver my custom built Dallas Rangemaster/boost pedal. Whats the difference between 7591's and 6l6's?
 

capnjuan

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I thought your older models looked more rugged than this series.

Agree; maybe Guild thought the particle board was the thing of the future or they were 'green' even back then. The board is susceptible to moisture absorption and it has no impact resistance. The 'ears' on the front of my T1 RVT cabinet are 'mushy' from getting bumped.

My T1 is back from its trip to my pal Zach, I can't explain why he never replied to you. If you'd like, I'll ping him for you. He did the from-scratch re-build on the power supply and de-bugged the reverb including adding a drop-down resistor to quench the 'pop' when switching the reverb in/out.

With used Celestions and a fresh reverb can, it sounds pretty good even with its off-the-wall 6GW8s. Running Tungsrams now; holding Mullards in reserve. I hope John K can get his reverb running; with the controls, mine can range from minimal to 'rain forest'.

According to one of Jay Pilzer's articles, the Thunderbird has the same stand-alone reverb amp as the T1 RVT except it's pc-mounted although I didn't understand his remark about wiring the two speakers out-of-phase; do you?

http://www.guildguy.com/fgp6.html
Now it resides inside the chassis behind the pots. This makes the circuit more susceptible to noise from movement but as long as the reverb speaker (8" CTS 137702) is wired out of phase with the main speaker (12" non-original) noise problems are nil. This wiring scheme is the same as our Thunder 1 reverb.
To accomodate both speakers, the T1 RVT baffle board and cabinet are wider than the chassis leaving the chassis-to-cabinet attachment engineering a little suspect not to mention relying on a bolt through the top (disguised as as one of the handle anchors) down to tie into the cross-bracket over the chassis for load support and front-to-back stability.

I find myself alongside, if not in, in John K's boat; heavily patch, scratch-build, or mooch / buy a dead amp with a solid cabinet although based on the dissing I've given Guild cabinets, maybe I can get John to make an extra one...

That girl/guy pic knocks me out too ... maybe it's the bent knees crouch, as if they were dancing or something ... anyway it's pretty cool.

Maybe we need to 'salt the mine' when it comes to Guild amps; go out to BBs everywhere and rave on and on about them, write stunning reviews ... or maybe not. When mine's done; cab re-hab, re-cover, other bits and pieces, I'll have more in it than I can get for it but that won't stop it from being a pretty good amp with a proud heritage and logo.

regards,
 

capnjuan

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Hi Thundercat: re 6L6 v. 7591

6L6: http://tdsl.duncanamps.com/show.php?des=6L6
7591: http://tdsl.duncanamps.com/show.php?des=7591

The pinouts are different and there are other technical differences. Mostly the 6L6 sort of wouldn't go away, not unlike the 6V6; popular with designers and manufacturers. Because of the pinouts, the 6L6 and the 7591 are not drop-in substitutes. BTW, due in part to the 7591 internal wiring and therefore pinouts, there are no substitutes for a 7591.

Remarks from Groove Tubes:
http://www.groovetubes.com/product.cfm?Product_ID=1703
This obscure pentode tube used in some early Gibson amps had been off the market until our favorite Russian factory decided to supply it again. They are made in very low quantities, which is why the relatively high price, but they are a close copy of the origional tube and sound real good.

I've read the Pittman book and respect them but they failed to mention that Guild and Ampeg also made extensive use of the 7591. It's also not 'off the market'.

Apparently GTs 'favorite Russian factory' charges GT an arm and a leg; cheaper JJs and Electro Harmonix here: http://search.store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/n ... index.html

Both are found in amps with 50 watts or more output including bass amps; generally both are built like tanks.

Soundwise ... well ... ask 100 people and you'll get 100 answers. You might read Gerald Kendrick's book on tube amps; I think he discusses the flavors that 6L6s come in; Chinese, Eastern European, US and so on, not sure he covers the varieties of 7591s.

I will say that I took his advice on JJ 6V6s in my old Gibbies; they sound good to me. At the end of the day, when it comes to whether something 'sounds good', it's every man for themselves.

If you think you want to mess with 6L6s, you'll have to re-wire the output tube sockets; usually lifting, moving, sometimes splicing, and re-connecting anywhere from 3 - 6 wires per socket; tedious, time-consuming, and carrying (for us amateurs) the risk of error. I don't know if there's a 'converter' for 6L6/7591 out there.

Hope this helps.

regards, J
 
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