what is the next step up in size from the T1 RVT?

gilded

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Hi guys,

First off, I really like my Thunder 1 RVT. It's one of the beige ones with the two-tone grill. A friend had a really clean one, and then I found a pretty beat up one in a buddy's flea-market pile of 'amps to be fixed up someday'. The reverb didn't work and the tremelo was hardwired (switch gone out of foot unit). Took it to the tech; cap job done, replaced the reverb power tube, new switch and grounded power cable. I even cleaned the tolex!

By the way, after transporting the amp back from the Tech's shop, I realized that the new, heavy-duty power cord and even the original footswitch cord thrashed about inside the cab and moved the tubes around, so I secured the power cord to a speaker board mounting strip (real wood, not the fiberboard) and the footswitch cord to a speaker bolt off of the small 8" speaker.

Anyway, I like it so much, I may make a new upper back panel (unless somebody has one for sale?). I'm also looking for a fresh set of power tubes. Anybody got a recommendation as to a particular brand to look for on eBay?

Also, as has been discussed on T1 RVTs previously by matsickma, capnjuan, et al, these amps sound cool, but aren't very loud. What I'm wondering is, what is the next step up in size in the Guild amp line? Two T1 RVTs?

Seriously, is there a Guild amp that sounds like the T1 RVT with a bit more power, some thing you could do a gig with?
I'm not talkin' Led Zep, just something that's loud enough to work in a sixties rock guitar/bass/drum trio with a bit of headroom?

Normally, I would play a Black-face Vibrolux Reverb, but I'd like to know what the Guild tube equivalent would be, especially with a 12" speaker instead of a 2x10 combination. What should a fellow be looking for?
 

capnjuan

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gilded said:
...I really like my Thunder 1 RVT... may make a new upper back panel ....fresh set of power tubes.... brands...

What I'm wondering is, what is the next step up in size ... sounds like the T1 RVT with a bit more power, some thing you could do a gig with? ... what the Guild tube equivalent would be, especially with a 12" speaker

Hi Gilded; congratulations on your new amp. I don't think you're going to find a panel but you need something to provide physical protection for the tubes. Vertical steel chassis back panel model?

Tubes: There are NOS domestic 6GW8s but I think you're looking for Telefunkens, Siemens, Amperex, Mullard, or Tunsgram; Euro-tubes. They made them for the table radio market where there was strong concern over sound quality; the only pair of Sylvania 6GW8s didn't sound as good as the Tungsrams and Mullards I've used although I might not have waited long enough to break the Sylvanias in.

Next step? I can think of three:

Guild also made the Thunderbird w/ 2X7591s, 12" speaker, and the reverb circuit / amp / speaker like the T1 RVT. At least one member has one of these and he'll probably chime in here. T-Bird might reach 20-25 watts? These amps are fairly rare and the cabinet construction standards makes them susceptible to damage in transit. If I could find one locally, I wouldn't hesitate...

The other way to go is with a ThunderBass amp; yes, thunder this, thunder that ... Anyway; made in 2- and 4-tube preamp models; 2X6L6s; 40-50 watts. Seen mostly as 'heads' now although sometimes a head / cab pair show up on eBay. Several members have these and they think they are strong amps.

Model 100Js also show up on eBay; many w/ 15" speakers; Fender/Gibson-style cabinet construction, 6L6s(?), tons of 50's mojo.

Congrats again on your new amp; got pics?

cj
 

gilded

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capnjuan said:
I don't think you're going to find a panel but you need something to provide physical protection for the tubes.

I agree on both counts.

Vertical steel chassis back panel model?

Yes!

Tubes: There are NOS domestic 6GW8s but I think you're looking for Telefunkens, Siemens, Amperex, Mullard, or Tunsgram; Euro-tubes. They made them for the table radio market where there was strong concern over sound quality; the only pair of Sylvania 6GW8s didn't sound as good as the Tungsrams and Mullards I've used although I might not have waited long enough to break the Sylvanias in.

Thanks, I'll skip the Sylvanias!

Next step? I can think of three:

Guild also made the Thunderbird w/ 2X7591s, 12" speaker, and the reverb circuit / amp / speaker like the T1 RVT. At least one member has one of these and he'll probably chime in here. T-Bird might reach 20-25 watts? These amps are fairly rare and the cabinet construction standards makes them susceptible to damage in transit. If I could find one locally, I wouldn't hesitate...

The other way to go is with a ThunderBass amp; yes, thunder this, thunder that ... Anyway; made in 2- and 4-tube preamp models; 2X6L6s; 40-50 watts. Seen mostly as 'heads' now although sometimes a head / cab pair show up on eBay. Several members have these and they think they are strong amps.

Model 100Js also show up on eBay; many w/ 15" speakers; Fender/Gibson-style cabinet construction, 6L6s(?), tons of 50's mojo.

Thanks, I'll start looking. The Thunderbird amp sounds like a good choice (though your cautionary remark about the cab construction method certainly hits home).

I've seen some pics on the Thunderbird amps, seems like I could look for one in the two-tone grill/fawn tolex scheme. That way, the amps could sit side by side and 'match'. Artistic, ain't I?


Congrats again on your new amp; got pics?

I can get some pics, maybe tomorrow. The amp looks pretty good, except for the one chewed-up ear on the left front and the aforementioned missing back panel. It has the original speakers, which sound fine to me.

Thanks, capn!


cj
 

capnjuan

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Hi Gilded; the other posts got dumped in the server crash or whatever it was. You had asked about prices for Thunderbirds; I'd said $250-$275 on eBay, more in on-line stores. Between cabinet construction problems and dick-weed sellers, I don't think I'd buy one unless I could play through it and then take it home with me.

There's a Guild c. 1957 Master amp on eBay, Guild Master amp eBay listing going around for the 2nd time in recent memory. Seller says he has $1,200 in it; now he wants a buyer to make the same mistake he did; alternatively, he might be fronting for the owner who's said: "...not less than...". He took his reserve off and then spiked up the starting bid ... :evil:

As with many eBay wannabe dealers, this guy's 'opener' is about where this amp would 'finish' if he'd trust the market. Looks like a pretty neat amp.

cj
 

gilded

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Thanks, cap'n,

You know, I'm more interested in something that sounds like the Thunder 1 RVT (but a bit louder) than cool old Guild amps in general. Accordingly, I think I'll stay on the lookout for a Thunderbird amp!

I hear what you're saying about the fiberboard cabs being rough to ship. It's almost like only buy the amp if the seller will agree to pull the chassis and the speakers and send it all in 3 different packages! That way, the cab would have a better chance of making it without the 'heavy parts' pulling it apart from the inside.

So, $275 for the amp, $100 for the labor intensive shipping of 3 packages. I get it.

Any particular year T-Bird amp to look out for?
 

capnjuan

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Hi Gilded: the person to answer that is probably matsickma; knows the history of Guild amps very well. He might know how long they were in production, model-to-model variations, that kind of thing. But you're on it; the T-Bird is probably closer to the T1 RVT than the Master / 100J which, if I understand correctly, are thought of as Ampegs with Guild logos ... that is not a bad thing.

cj
 

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gilded said:
only buy the [Thunderbird] amp if the seller will agree to pull the chassis and the speakers and send it all in 3 different packages! That way, the cab would have a better chance of making it without the 'heavy parts' pulling it apart from the inside.

I wish I'd had the information beforehand that leads to that conclusion, rather than generating it from scratch.

The newest Thunderbird just received seems good and strong, even if it is made of fibreboard. The earlier one that conpletely disintegrated in transit had obviously been very wet indeed, and that's just death for any sort of manufactured wood. If dry, it seems pretty robust.

It's not hard - building a rudimentary frame around the amp will do it, but it seems that folks do get offended by a buyer giving shipping instructions. Better, I think, if it can't be crated, is to ask the seller to ship the amp upside down so the heavy chassis is on the bottom of an inner box, then tape or otherwise affix sheets of thin plywood or fibreboard to the sides of the box to prevent it flexing side to side, and put it all into another outer packing box. And, of course, to pull the tubes and pack them separately.

"Too soon old, too late smart."
 

capnjuan

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Any of us would probably have better luck getting an on-line store to do a credible pack/ship as opposed to the eBay crowd. Amazing the variation; Coastie's 1482, considerably lighter, was wrapped, re-wrapped, surrounded again in bubble wrap, styrofoam goobers on and on while the next eBay Doof will just dump it in a box.

T-Bird #2 on-line yet?
 

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capnjuan said:
T-Bird #2 on-line yet?

Next week, I'm assured. I'm eager.

In the meantime, I've discovered (re-inventing wheels again, I know) what wonders can be done by retensioning pin sockets for the 6L6s on the Thunderbass. I could not for the life of me figure out what the rattle and buzz was - loose tubes was all. The amp tech who "serviced" the Thunderbass is no longer in my life. Live and learn, over and over.

Perhaps the Buddhist who invented re-incarnation was really just a guy who wanted to understand guitars and a little bit about amps, and ran out of life to do it in.
 

capnjuan

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Nice move on the pin tension. Provided it isn't stripped for parts, is there a plan for T#1?

cj
 

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capnjuan said:
Provided it isn't stripped for parts, is there a plan for T#1?

I intend to rebuild the cabinet as discussed previously with plywood and a couple of your tips re rubber suspension mounts, etc. I saved the old trim, tolex and woodgrain, and I may be able to get it clean enough to look OK, otherwise it will be a new (StewMac) tolex box. The speakers and grille are fine for now, at least until I figure out what's up with the chassis.

And here it might get interesting. Assuming that Bird 2 flies as it should, I think I'll take the opportunity to learn a whole lot about tube amps by servicing Bird 1 myself, ground up. I've been collecting various bit and pieces of info from the web, plus the invaluable advice from you and matsickma - my (skimpy) technical background is really in fibre optics and solid state stuff, but I think it would be a pleasant project to bring Bird 1 back to life over time.

I'm planning to begin by recapping the Thunderbass, and doing a general cleanup throughout. It's a simpler machine anyway, and should be a good place to start.

No doubt you'll be hearing from me, cries of both anguish and elation, as it proceeds.
 

capnjuan

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john_kidder said:
...No doubt you'll be hearing from me, cries of both anguish and elation, as it proceeds.
So long as you don't shock yourself ...

What outputs does your TBass have; 6L6s or 8417s? # of tubes in the pre-amp? Okay for schematic? The 8417 model may have either a 6GF7 or 7247 a/k/a 12DW7 as the driver; JJ / Tesla is making these and they retail in the low $10s; 6GF7s are NOS; cheap enough but no longer in current production. Does your TBass have the little circuit boards like the TBird reverb board or hard-wired to the chassis? Those little boards ..... grrrr :evil:
 

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The Thunderbass has 6L6 outputs, (Ithink )4 x 12AX7 preamp, but my schematic says 3 x 12AX7 and one 7427 - better check that. It's all point-to-point hardwired, so that part should be (relatively) simple. The T-Bird "mini-boards" do look like an experimental pain in the butt.

SYNCHRONICITY FLASH: While writing this note, got a call on my cellphone from the tech looking at the Thunderbird (he's going to replace all the 12AX7s for starters - some of them still ahve the Guild logo, so must be 40 years old). Quote "Those little PC boards are really awkward, with all the components mounted on the bottom where you can't get at them - this is not a good design"
 

capnjuan

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john_kidder said:
The Thunderbass has 6L6 outputs, (Ithink) 4 x 12AX7 preamp, but my schematic says 3 x 12AX7 and one 7247...
Chances are somebody substituted a 12AX7 for the 7247; there are technical diffs but, for testing/startup, I don't think it'll matter.

SYNCHRONICITY FLASH: While writing this note, got a call on my cellphone from the tech looking at the Thunderbird (he's going to replace all the 12AX7s for starters - some of them still have the Guild logo, so must be 40 years old). Darryl was looking for logo'd tubes a few months back; now that a tube showed up, we're looking for Darryl :shock:

Quote "Those little PC boards are really awkward, with all the components mounted on the bottom where you can't get at them - this is not a good design" It takes alot of fun out of working with them. For your tech, it's a legitimate hindrance. :evil:
Edits:

Tube data: This link Duncan Amps Tube Data Locator takes you to a search/data engine page for the 7247; (we both muffed in earlier; not 7427) which is a twin - triode (same general function as a 12AX7) w/ 12V heaters. I'll check the two schematics I have especially the power supply which will indicate whether there are any 6V tubes - like a 6GF7 - expected; makes big difference.

Board Bro: Lurking out there is an e-quaintance from another BB who is also a member here. He too has a copy of the 4-tube preamp Thunderbass and is struggling with the 6GF7 phenomenon; i.e., what does it go, if at all. He was kind enough to forward a schematic for the 8417 output model; note posted today; ask DKL for it or email me w/ return address.

Got any close-up pics of the underside of the chassis?
 
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