How did you "find" your voice?

Graham

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For you guys that play out and sing how did you find your singing voice?

I've been messing around with this Zoom H4 that I got recently and man my voice is hideous. It's a cross between Neil Young and Buckwheat. :shock: Seriously.

I've sang along to music all my life, even sang bass in the choir in school, but take away anything to "follow" and this is a real different animal. I can find the opening note if I hum it, but into the song I'm all over the place. I tried recording myself using headphones while I listened to a song, man that was off key by a country mile. Funny as hell though. I saved it for future pleasure.

I know there is the whole inner ear outer ear thing in listening to yourself recorded, and I guess many folks just aren't meant to sing. At the same time though, is there a method or is it entirely trial and error?

On a different note, what do in ear monitors, or speaker monitors for that matter do for the gigging musician? And what about in the recording studio, where there are headphones used?

This is how I feel. :oops:
 

john_kidder

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Graham:

"They" say that training your voice is like training your ear - practice, practice, practice.

There are a number of devices around like the IVL Pitchrider (now they seem to have moved entirely in karaoke, g*d help us all), that help a vocalist to see/hear pitch differences. They're useful. But what helped me most (and I'm much more a singer than I am a player) was a few lessons with a vocal coach. Just as Jeff got great benefit from a guitar teacher, as distinct from self-teaching or following through books, so I learned better how to hear myself, how to control pitch more easily and accurately, a little something about dynamic range, etc.

Mostly I learned an enormous amount about muscle control and breathing technique - like most good teaching, it now seems obvious. But perhaps you've had a guitar teacher who showed you how decent hand position opened up the fretboard? Same thing here. Take a single one-on-one lesson from a good local vocal coach, anfd I'm sure you'll open up entirely new avenues.

What I still can't do very well is sing and play at the same time - I'm fine with folk tunes and the like, but what I like best is jazz and swing. There, one needs to move the vocal melody around the beat, while keeping really tight time on the guitar. Worse for me than patting your head and rubbing your stomach . When I get together with others who are good players and I can just focus on singing, then I can get loose and have a good time. But both together still eludes me.

Good luck - your voice is in there, it just needs to be liberated.
 

JerryR

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Hi Graham

Like John, I'm more a singer than a player - I don't know how, I just do it. Some people have asked me if I've been operatically trained, but that always worries me as I always think operatic singing sounds false and forced - I've never had any voice training. I did years of acting before I did much public singing and I guess that certainly taught me to project my voice. I can belt it out in a noisy pub and be heard without a mic - and usually hope to drown out bum notes in my awful guitar playing. I never could read note music to sing to - I have to hear the tune first.

Guess that doesn't help much - sorry :(
 

jp

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Boy, that's a tough one Graham. A vocal teacher and some good basic books will definitely help. Even just a few basic pointers from a good singer helps. I found my voice by constantly asking the many schooled musicians I've lived with over the years. They all had to take sight singing and learned the basics of breathing control, as John mentioned.

I think one of the hindrances a lot of people have is to try consciously or unconsciously to imitate singers they like, rather than finding out how they sound best themselves. It's true that when figuring out another's tune, these influences will seep in naturally. It's good to be aware of it, though, and how it helps or hinders your natural voice. I had a roommate with an incredibly natural voice, and he helped me develop mine to where I'm quite happy with it. He started me out by telling me to just breathe deeply, and on the out breath, let out the note that feels most natural and relaxed, open and with as much air flowing as possible. According to him, this was the best natural key for his vocal range. (I've also heard that this is how to find the natural "OM" for meditation.) He also had me start singing a song quietly, without playing it or trying to sing it in its actual key--very naturally and softly almost like conversation, without trying to project. After finding my key, I tried playing a song I knew in the same key, first with a capo and then by transposing.

Afterwards, for me, it became a matter of learning to push more air using my upper diaphragm, and then even more with the lower diaphragm, where the power comes from. I also learned a lot about breath control from the sax and flute players I lived with. I play through a song a gazillion times to figure out where and when to breathe, after I decide how to phrase. It's really satisfying to feel like one's improving. Recording yourself, though embarassing at first, is really helpful, especially after you get over how silly you think you sound. :lol:

Don't forget, just as there's always someone better than you, there's always someone worse as well.

Hope this helps. This is what worked for me.
 

GuildFS4612CE

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Hi, Graham,

If I understand what your problem is....you are having difficulty staying on pitch and in key with your guitar accompaniment.

Now, I sing and play by ear, minus the tech stuff, so I'm going to simplify this for you and maybe it will help as it sounds like you are getting ahead of yourself and all the more knowledgeable people are giving you wonderful information you are not quite ready to use.

Now, assuming you've chosen a workable key, for your voice and range,

YOU NEED TO HEAR YOURSELF TO BE ABLE TO STAY ON PITCH.

If you have an amp and a microphone, you can use that as a monitor, or a separate monitor, even better, just to amplify your voice so you can hear YOU over the guitar a bit.

If not, face a wall, or closed window, or even play in the closet or the bathroom so your voice and guitar are projected back towards you.

Most of the notes you will be singing will be within the chords you are playing.

Listen to your chords.

Hum the tune along with the chords and LISTEN for the changes.

Then try it with the words and the chords.

Keep the chords and strums simple to start.

Play and sing slowly, speed isn't everything.

Rhythm and picking patterns can come later after you've learned to use your voice.

If possible choose a key somewhere in the middle of the range of the song to make the top and bottom notes easier to reach.

If you are not comfortable with the key, try another one. Use the capo if it is easier for you.

Alot of the time, if your voice is switching keys while you are singing it is because you are in a key that is not best for your voice.

Above all, LISTEN.

And start with a very simple song, a song from your childhood that you know well is a really good place to start. You know it well. You will know when you get it right.

Heck, even three blind mice will work :mrgreen:

You can graduate to slow ballads.

Rock and roll will come later :lol:

And, practice, practice, practice.

Your EAR will get better as you go along.

Since you have a recorder, you might even try recording yourself playing the chords while singing silently to yourself in your head, then play the chords back on the recorder and sing along out loud, if playing and singing at the same time are too difficult to start.

It will get better. It's a new skill.

And save the recordings you've already made.....you'll appreciate even more how much progress you've made in the future. :oops:

Good luck.
 

Graham

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GuildFS4612CE said:
And save the recordings you've already made.....you'll appreciate even more how much progress you've made in the future. :oops:
Good luck.

I've saved a few already, absolutely hilarious! :shock:

Thanks for the input, everyone. I think I am having trouble finding a key for my voice.
 

GuildFS4612CE

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Graham said:
Thanks for the input, everyone. I think I am having trouble finding a key for my voice.

Graham .... that's what I guessed it might be.

Mostly from attending various folk club type functions where many inexperienced people stumble over the same intonation challenged road blocks.

I reread your first post. Noted that you sang bass....therefore your voice is probably in the lower range. Though voices do change over the years.

If you tune your guitar to standard pitch, you have a low and a high E note....they are the same note "E" but they are, I think, an octive apart. But, I repeat, they are the SAME note. If you are playing in the key of E, for example, try matching your starting note to the low note first, and then the high note...another words, in any key, you have a CHOICE of octaves. Actually, you could sing in a low octive, capo way up, and play in a much higher octave....but still be in key.

Also, there is NO ONE KEY for your voice...EVERY song might be in a different key :!:

In general, if you search for a starting note/key in the middle of the range of the tune, you'll have the best chance of hitting one that works for you.

And just to confuse things even more, the key you sing in acoustically....might not be the right key on mic/amplified.

But, back to basics....

We cannot hear what we sound like when we sing/speak.

There are many issues with mics/amplification that someone more technical, such as capnjuan, could better explain, but, basically, you have both dynamic and condensor mics, which operate differently, color the voice differently, have different patterns.....not all mics match all peoples voices.

Many beginners, for example, sing too close to the microphone....many mics color/amplify the lower notes artificially when you are too close. If your recording sounds very bass-y, muddy, underwaterish....chances are you were too close when you recorded. You also, depending on the pattern of the mic, could be too far to one side, too high, too low......

We cannot hear ourselves accurately.

A simple test might be.....find a simple song you are comfortable singing and playing.

Record it, preferably without your wife listening.

Ask your wife if she's got a minute.

Sing her the song live.

Then ask her to listen to the recording.

Ask her if the recording sounds like you.

If she says it's different, ask her how so?

Chances are if the recording sounds quite different to her than you live, it's a recording issue.

In any case, even if you don't have the best quality voice, work on your intonation and then your timing. Unless your voice is one of those totally unpleasant nightmares....which is pretty rare....if you can sing on key, and in time, most people will find your singing to be pleasant.

Dylan's songs were hits because HE DIDN"T SING THEM....though I must say, the last time I saw him a few years ago he had greatly improved, or he was using an electronic helper to stay on pitch. :roll:

Or, since you are Canuckian....an example from your part of the woods....Mr. Sexsmith....can't hit a note accurately to save his soul, but dearly beloved none the less :lol:

Music is for everyone. :D

Don't Worry...Be Happy...

Just don't amplify yourself in a group in public until you get the hang of it. :mrgreen:
 

dreadnut

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I've got a recording from 1958, when I was four years old. My dad, rest his soul, had the foresight to take us to a recording studio one day. (My 11 year old sister played the accordion and I sang, in churches, festivals, etc.) I recently had the scratchy old vinyl recording cleaned up a bit and transferred to a CD. Now if I can figure out how to paste it here, I'll share it with you, it's really a hoot :D :D

Anyway, that was my inauspicious beginnings. Now, I just belt 'em out regardless what it sounds like :lol:

I will say this, I like my voice a lot better when someone with a higher voice sings harmony with me.
 

West R Lee

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Graham,

I can't sing, but I let the guitar pretty much show me where to take my voice. Play something you're familiar with the lyrics, and go where the chords take you. Over time, you'll get the hang of it.

West
 

FNG

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Hey Graham...couple things might help. Find a easy song you like, then get a capo and try different capo positions to see if you can align your voice with that key. Also, try tuning down a half or whole step. Certain songs I just can't sing unless I tune down, like Neil Young stuff. Then just belt it out in the back room for the heck of it...who cares?
 

JerryR

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FNG said:
Hey Graham...couple things might help. Find a easy song you like, then get a capo and try different capo positions to see if you can align your voice with that key. Also, try tuning down a half or whole step. Certain songs I just can't sing unless I tune down, like Neil Young stuff. Then just belt it out in the back room for the heck of it...who cares?


Right on :!: And a capo is essential for singers, especially of you have a preference for a particular chord sequence for the song that doesn't have the same quality if you change the key. Even though a lot of the songs I do are based on an Am chord sequence, I'll fit it to my voice range using a capo. Usually though, if I have to capo more than 3 frets (with one exception - Ranters Wharf - where I like the resulting plinky tone on capo 5) I'll change to a different key. If Spancil Hill survives the Britfolk editing and gets broadcast later this year (and if it does I'll post the link), that was open mic at 'Folk at the Oak' and I do it on an Am chord sequence capo 2.
 

JerryR

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drednut said:
Hey, Jer, great minds think alike :D


I keep looking for a singing partner for Scarboro Fair (the 2nd half of the song is the woman's reply to the man, if you know the words) - and every likely female that turns up at the Clubs gets approached. Funny - they never seem to come again :shock: :roll:
 

fungusyoung

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Lots of great advice already.

What really opened up things for me was being able to monitor recordings "live". You may want to consider a used Tascam 4-track recorder. You can plug your guitar into it if you have a pick up, and also get a Shure SM-57 or SM-58 for vocals. You could get both a 4-track & mic for under $300 USD.

I often use my Tascam not to record, but just to monitor how I'm singing. As others suggested, I can then experiment with alternate tunings and with a capo to figure out what works best. As painful as hearing yourself might be in the beginning, it definitely helps to monitor your voice live because some of the most obvious mistakes you make can be heard immediately & quickly fixed as opposed to doing it wrong for ages... which is much harder to correct. Also, if you're not really belting it out because other family members are home, wait until they go out for a while and really push yourself. You may be surprised to hear how much higher your voice will go when pushed, and sometimes that is where folks find their sweet spot.

Have to agree with the "practice, practice, practice" mantra the most. Nothing helps more.
 

kitniyatran

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Two things that helped me most:
1; "studied" Bluegrass; not just the playing, but reading about & listening to the singing, & trying technique helps suggested, such as opening the tube from your head down to your feet, & singing from the Gut, not the chest.

2;joined the church choir, & listened & applied technique helps suggested, such as singing from the gut, how to pronounce vowels, consonants, & syllables when singing.
 
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