Nature Boy

fronobulax

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Over here is a discussion of this '74 S-100. The model number is clearly S-100-NB according to the label. The seller claims it is a rare finish, and implies it is factory without actually saying so, called Night Blue. The control cavity seems to have been finished in the same color which suggests a through job of refinishing or a factory job.

Hans, quoting himself, notes that in the '70's, the NB suffix did refer to a natural finish called "Nature Boy". As described, the Nature Boy finish sounds like wood grain would be visible.

There is a part of me that believes life is simpler if the S-100-NB is a factory finish called Night Blue. However, Hans is usually (ok, always 8) ) right and admits when he doesn't know something. Furthermore, extrapolating from my '71 JS II bass and my recollection of Guild offerings at the time, I can't recall a factory finish that didn't show the grain.

So, are there examples of S-100's from the early '70's with a factory finish that does not show the grain? If so what colors?

Thanks.
 

hansmoust

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fronobulax said:
Hans, quoting himself, notes that in the '70's, the NB suffix did refer to a natural finish called "Nature Boy". As described, the Nature Boy finish sounds like wood grain would be visible.

There is a part of me that believes life is simpler if the S-100-NB is a factory finish called Night Blue. However, Hans is usually (ok, always 8) ) right and admits when he doesn't know something. Furthermore, extrapolating from my '71 JS II bass and my recollection of Guild offerings at the time, I can't recall a factory finish that didn't show the grain.

So, are there examples of S-100's from the early '70's with a factory finish that does not show the grain? If so what colors?

Thanks.

Hello fronobulax,

During that particular time there was only one standard color that didn't show the grain and it was 'Black'. It should not be confused with 'Ebony Grain' because that was a different finish altogether. I've seen a couple of white finished solid bodies over the years, but those were custom orders. It is very well possible that there were more 'custom order' finishes but so far I haven't seen them.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl
 

danerectal

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To me, it looks as if the refinisher had removed the copper shielding tape for the refin. That makes it so much worse. I must admit, it is a pretty unique finish, for the eighties...
 

fronobulax

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danerectal said:
To me, it looks as if the refinisher had removed the copper shielding tape for the refin. That makes it so much worse. I must admit, it is a pretty unique finish, for the eighties...

Interesting. I was kind of thinking they had painted over the shielding but now that I'm looking closely I recally am not certain what the "layers" are and which ones are oldest. At the top center where the white lead is coming from the pickup, it looks like blue paint is peeling and revealing copper. On the other hand, now that I look closely, that could be copper on top of blue right at the phone jack and who knows what was going on below the selector switch?

106355.Guts.jpg
 

hansmoust

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Hello everybody,

Actually, apart from the NB designation on the label, the copper shielding was the 'giveaway' for the refinish job.

Here's what the 'guts' of a 'Nature Boy' finished solid body from the '70s should look like:

NatureBoyDetail.jpg


Obviously, this is a bass but it should give you an idea!

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl
 

fronobulax

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danerectal said:
I thought that cap on the mini-toggle looked suspicious. I've only seen orange scripto switches in oldies like that.

Education time, please.

Mini-toggle, aka the suck switch on the JS? Acts as a treble cut on the neck pickup on the JS? At the bottom of the photos on the left side? Destination of the red wire in the S-100?

Cap? Capacitor? Top covering?

What is an "orange scripto switch"?

How would you describe what you are expecting as compared to what is there?

Are you talking about both instruments or would understanding the difference between the JS and the S-100 make things clear? (The difference isn't obvious to me).

Thanks.
 

danerectal

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Mini-toggle, aka the suck switch on the JS? Acts as a treble cut on the neck pickup on the JS? At the bottom of the photos on the left side? Destination of the red wire in the S-100?
Yes. In the S-100 it acts as a phase switch, so the red wire comes from the bridge pickup.

Cap? Capacitor? Top covering?
Capacitor. Responsible for the treble bleed in said "suck switch" on the JS-2. Also responsible for the treble bleed we all love in the tone control department. In an S-100 there is no capacitor on the mini-toggle because it's being used for phasing the pickups instead of a treble bleed circuit.

What is an "orange scripto switch"?
"Scorpio" is the brand of mini-toggle switch I've most commonly found in 70's S-100s. The housing of these Scorpio switches was made of orange plastic. (Sorry, I misspoke earlier by calling them Scripto. Scripto makes crummy cigarette lighters as well as pens and pencils. Scorpio made, at one point, electronic components.) I was just surprised to see a mini-toggle with a black plastic housing like in the above pictures.

Are you talking about both instruments or would understanding the difference between the JS and the S-100 make things clear? (The difference isn't obvious to me).
My issue was the differences between the JS-2 and the S-100. I had never seen the treble bleed circuit, and I especially didn't anticipate the neck pickup going to the mini-toggle. Also, with only seeing orange Scorpio mini-toggle switches prior, I found myself completely disoriented by the black ones seen here. Two separate ideas. Really just voicing my shock at seeing what makes another classic tick.
 

danerectal

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Is the white in the "Night Blue" refin cavity from the adhesive backing on the copper shielding tape? That's the only conclusion I can reach...
 

fronobulax

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danerectal said:
Is the white in the "Night Blue" refin cavity from the adhesive backing on the copper shielding tape? That's the only conclusion I can reach...

Thanks. If the stars line up right it looks like I should pop the cover on my JS tonight and see what the cavity really looks like and look for signs of adhesive. Maybe even pictures :) but no promises.

My experience, so far, has been that there is much in common with the wiring of a factory JS and S-100 from the '70's. Both have a "tone" and volume for each pickup, a three way toggle and some kind of mini-toggle that effects only the neck pickup. I'm still learning though. Similarities also seem to hold true in the stereo versions.

My signal processing expertise has been digital so I'm not real good at looking at a circuit (or the components) and saying the circuit is a treble cut or combines the signals out of phase. It has always amused me that the mini-toggle was advertiesed as a bass boost when electrically it is a treble cut. Practically it is useless because getting good tone out of a JS with Guild humbuckers is hard enough as it is.
 

danerectal

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Both have a "tone" and volume for each pickup, a three way toggle and some kind of mini-toggle that effects only the neck pickup.
Really, the S-100's mini-toggle only effects the bridge pickup in the circuit to make it out of phase to the neck pickup.
 

fronobulax

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The control cavity of a 1971 JS II Bass, with the cover.

2007ShrineMont%20074.jpg


And a close up.

2007ShrineMont%20075.jpg


Comparing the shielding to the "Night Bird" S-100's cavity certainly suggests that something happened to the latter's shielding since it left the factory.

And, for what it's worth, this bass never had a Guild label.
 

danerectal

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And, for what it's worth, this bass never had a Guild label.

I was hoping not. That means my 70 is more original than I thought. I wonder if the phase wasn't an option on the 1970. It doesn't look very moddy, but I can't find the option on any literature. If I had a digital camera I'd show youse.
 

Gorgar

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Well, I happen to be local to that shop, and bought the guitar. Interestingly, they told me they'd talked to the original owner who had ordered it in that finish. Later they said they got it from a guitar show, so I am not sure what to believe there. If it is indeed a completely aftermarket paint job, I probably paid too much for it. They did come down on the price by a few hundred bucks, but I've seen other S-100s go for a *lot* less.

But, it still plays like the S-100SC I had a few years ago, and it looks very striking. I was googling for that "Night Blue" finish to see if there was any other Guild ever done in that finish, since I'd never heard of it, when I found this thread. I've been a big fan of Guild since getting a D-25 12 many years ago. Never imagined I'd buy one that inspired discussion on the internet, though.
 

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Gorgar said:
Interestingly, they told me they'd talked to the original owner who had ordered it in that finish. Later they said they got it from a guitar show, so I am not sure what to believe there.
Hi Gorgar. Welcome to the forum. If I would trust anyone, I would tend to believe Hans, especially since he felt it necessary to jump in and comment. If you didn't know, he literally "wrote the book" on Guild Guitars. He's got pretty extensive documentation about Guild's output.
hl1768.gif

Always irks me to hear dealers saying anything to sell a "nice piece," as they so commonly put it. Anyways, congratulations on your S-100! Now you can mod the finish without guilt that you're ruining the original finish. You only need to play it like mad so much so that you forget about the ordeal.
 

capnjuan

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Hi Gorgar; whatever the finish, I think it's a pretty cool guitar and agree w/ JP re/ what sellers will say to move instruments and amplifiers. "...may have been played by Elvis!..."

Welcome and best regards,

cj
 

Gorgar

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Thanks. I have a copy of that book. Did not know that the author posted here.

Though I'm a bit disappointed that it's not some odd rare official Guild finish, it's still a hell of a nice guitar, and it looks really good, and plays right. Thanks for the welcome. I've got three Guild acoustics (D-25, D-25 12, Corona F-50R) and had a JS-II at one point, so I imagine I'll stick around. I've been a Guild fan since the moment I heard the first note on that 12-string, hanging in a shop with seriousy ancient strings on it, but it was clear what the potential was. And, someday I'll pick up a Starfire.
 
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