coastie99
Enlightened Member
Does a brown base necessarily indicate CBS manufacture ?
If not, what should one look for to establish CBS manufacture ?
If not, what should one look for to establish CBS manufacture ?
Raytheon 6V6GTY.
- Thread starter coastie99
- Start date
Hi G-Man: I don't think so but not sure I could tell you why some are brown and some black. Info on mfr ID here: vacuum tube EIA codes Also don't know why some of the brown base material looks vaguely marbled or grainy and other doesn't. I have some old brown Dakaware chickenheads that have the 'marbled' look and then other - I think later ? - brown Dakaware knobs that are completely smooth, like some tube bases. CJ
Hi- This doesn't directly address your question, but may shed some light on a tangential mystery. As I understand it, the brown base was used to indicate a tube manufactured FOR the military. These were heavy-duty mil-spec tubes that were made by a variety of source suppliers. The plates and filaments on a brown-base tube will normally be larger and heavier than on comparable tubes made for the consumer market. It's a difference you can usually see if you look closely. The specific supplier was normally indicated on the glass, though many are hard to read now. Since they were all built to the same specs there shouldn't be much difference between brown-base tubes made by one source or another. The higher quality of the brown-base tubes is unlikely to make a difference you can hear, but it should make a big difference in how long it lasts as the larger plates dissipate more heat.
coastie99
Enlightened Member
AlohaJoe said:
Well AJ...... that seems to me to make a great deal of sense !
I've never noticed that brown bases are JAN. Thank you.
Hi AJ: some technical discussion on the Bendix brown-base, military-grade tubes supporting your remarks Here. I have several 6V6 / 5Y3 amps and my comments are limited to those two types but, respectfully, the difference between a NOS/reasonably fresh brown-base, military-grade 5Y3, that is, a 6087 v. commerical versions new or used is significant; more punch, bottom, and less sag. This comparison also applies to the 6106, another mil-spec 5Y3 variant. The only difference between the two is that the 6087 is rated at 2 amps on the filament and the 6106 at 1.7 amps. The audible difference in mil-spec rectifiers is maybe less about tone than it is how much tone and how its delivered.AlohaJoe said:
Brown-base/mil-spec 6V6s also provide the same contrast between commerical NOS or used 6V6s; call it more of the same thing - whatever tone your gear produces, the mil-spec 6V6s give you more of it because they are better-built tubes; presence, sound-stage, depth. The strongest contrast is between modern 6V6s and mil-spec or '50s commerical 6V6s. To my ear, current make 6V6s including the very popular JJs are designed and built to sound more like 6L6s; a brighter, cleaner, less distorted / more articulate sound than the vintage versions. By contrast, mil-spec 6V6s are darker, more compressed, woodier, and I think produce more chime than new ones but I think this is also true of most NOS/vintage commerical 6V6s. The difference is that the mil-specs, because they are better-built, do the vintage thing better than commerical-grade 6V6s.
Finally but I don't know when, the DoD dropped the 'brown-base' thing at least on octals; I have a set of Sylvania 6V6 JANs, with black bases, that I think are from the '70s. CJ
CJ- Thanks for the link to a very interesting article. The educational value of this forum is invaluable! The brown-base I swapped into my amp was a 50s era 5Y3. The tube guru who passed it along to me the other day didn't think it would make a big tonal difference, although I do think I detected a tighter bottom end. I haven't had a chance to switch back and forth to see how much difference I can really hear, but I look forward to trying that. After reading your comments, I think I'll see if he has a bb 6V6 laying around so I can try that too, since your description of the difference is right where I want to go. Thanks!
Hi AJ: in fairness to the tube, it might have been near the end of its useful life too. These are two of my four 6087/5Y3s; the others are in a GA18 and GA8 Gibsonette:AlohaJoe said:
One of those amps is running on a pair of brown-base, mil-spec Hytron 6V6s and the other on a pair of mil-sped CBS-Hytron 6V6s; CBS - buying electronics manufacturers, followed NBC's route in buying RCA. A tip of my Guild flatpick to our BBer Teleharmonium who put me on to the Hytrons. And, since there's no point in not playing out the hand, I went ahead and bought these; a matched quad of NOS Bendix 5992s - the one of the left is going in the GA8 along with a single CBS Hytron so I can recover the matched Hytrons that are in there. The GA8's parallel, not push/pull, circuit doesn't need the matched tubes that are in it:
This is a pic of a school-boy band taken nearly 50 years ago; if you use your imagination, you get an idea of what was in the air when 6V6s ruled the land:
I'm after the rich, smokey, thick, meaty, crunchy brown sound of the late 50's and early 60's. The youts on our BB consider this fart-box tone ... so be it ... I didn't like Lawrence Welk either but I don't think there is anything much better than the mil-spec, brown-base tubes to generate it. I've gone to a lot of trouble to get my old Gibsons to sound as good as they can including Vintage Weber alnico speakers and, with the premium 1950s tubes in them, they are more than a match for any Champ or tweed Deluxe.
When I get booked into Shea Stadium to play to 40,000 people ... well ... maybe I'll go find something that produces a louder cleaner signal and some tight pants too but the mil-spec tubes, IMO, are the key to the tweed sound; not to say it's better - everyone's tastes are different. Best, CJ
Walter Broes
Enlightened Member
Don't include me in that group! But you know my age, so I'm sure you don't. :mrgreen:capnjuan said:
If I could afford it, I'd have an armada of 6V6 based amps - Gibsons, a tweed Deluxe, a small ampeg of some sort, etc...
Come to think of it, I've recorded plenty with 6V6 amps, all loaners from friends. I did one record with a tweed Deluxe and a 1X12 Gibson I couldn't tell you the model name of, and another record with a silverface Princeton and a different tweed Deluxe.
Hi Walter; no; I wasn't referring to you ... however I have turned you in to the Belgian Association of Retired People (BARP) to schedule you for a membership in the near future ... watch your mailbox! :wink: Here in FL where the average age for adults is about 104, they still have re-runs of the same Lawrence Welk shows that drove my brothers and I into the arms of rock and roll 50 years ago ... more proof that you can run but not hideWalter Broes said:
:lol: J
Walter Broes
Enlightened Member
I have a fun job, I don't think I'd want to retire even if I could. (not bloody likely any time soon on what I'm making though, ha!).
I'm 38, in case anyone's confused... :|
I'm 38, in case anyone's confused... :|
Sorry Walter, was only having a little fun ... I actually thought you were 37 ... :wink: I'll be 61 early next year; there are a few others here like me who tend to see everyone as younger than themselves ... because it's true! Best, JWalter Broes said:
Walter Broes
Enlightened Member
Oh, no offense taken whatsoever John, I'm just talking.
Well ... if you're going to play Shea Stadium and default and I are going to Road Tech for you, we better hurry because it Won't be long now but I think Islamabad is out of the question ... no matter how cool the local buses are.
I'm more of a jazz guy, but I'll add another rave for old Gibson amps. I had a jump-swing dance band gig with some horns last weekend in a hotel ballroom downtown. The other guitar player (a far better player than me) brought a fifties Gibson ES150 and a very old Gibson amp and just played the hell out of it. What a sound! Warm and rich... right on the edge of breakup and with overtones to die for. The ghost of Charlie Christian was in the house and "the joint was jumpin".
Hi AJ; Gibsons aren't Fenders but, then again, Gibsons aren't Fenders; they have a tone all their own; warm, dirty, crunchy, and compressed ... can range from sweet to snarly. One of our BBers once told us that there were 246 registered types of cheese in France ... Bleu is fine but I really dig Gouda! CJAlohaJoe said: