How old is your starfire bass???

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Hello all new member here, I have been wondering how old some of the starfire basses are that are still being played and enjoyed and not sitting behind glass or in some Hard Rock cafe e.t.c.? I have the luck/honor of playing a 1965 Starfire 1 serial # Ba-116 does any one have a '65 to compare mine to? I have not seen tuners like mine has, and mine is missing the finger rests(if any body has any i'll pay top dollar for...) These are really special instruments to play. The bi-sonic on this bass is one of the best sounding pickups i've ever played. Do tell your stories if you have any about your early Guilds........Smokinbear
 

fronobulax

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Welcome. My SF is a '67. Grot and Mellowgerman have '66's and they should be along presently. Grot's is here and mellow's can be seen here or here. I'd post a link to mine except I don't recall it exactly and the photohosting site is blocked at this computer. Gilded has an early one, too. Search LTG for "krylon" and I think you'll find it.
 

hansmoust

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smokin-bear said:
I have the luck/honor of playing a 1965 Starfire 1 serial # Ba-116 does any one have a '65 to compare mine to? I have not seen tuners like mine has........Smokinbear

Hello again Smokinbear,

Welcome! I assume you are referring to the enclosed tuners? They used all kinds of tuners during that period and I'm curious what kind are on your bass. Can you post a photo?

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl
 

mellowgerman

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welcome smokin bear! as frono told you above, i have a '66 starfire bass I. he also posted a pic for you to check out. great guy!
honestly though, this is the best bass I've ever played. just got it a few months ago. I plan to get a starfire II (with bisonics) at some point, but i've played one and i can honestly say that i think all those extra wires and controls in there take something away from that big woody groovalicious tone. nothing tops the single bisonic (bridge/middle position) with basic volume, tone, and input jack... but that's just my $.02
 
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Thanks for all the replies, i must agree with mellowgerman the single bridge p/u starfires are the best, i find my self on my 65 more and more as i've only had it a year at the most. i will try to post some pics for hans/all to see of her soon. /Users/bear/Pictures/iPhoto Library/Modified/2009/65 guild/IMG_0032.JPG/Users/bear/Pictures/iPhoto Library/Modified/2009/65 guild/IMG_0033.JPG
 

mgod

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I have what is probably a 65 but has a 64 serial number, so its among the very first SFs. Sunburst single bridge pickup, black plastic bridge saddles. Great bass, but I mostly use my 67 double pickup. Its better.

DS
 

gilded

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mgod said:
I have what is probably a 65 but has a 64 serial number, so its among the very first SFs. Sunburst single bridge pickup, black plastic bridge saddles. Great bass, but I mostly use my 67 double pickup. Its better.

DS

Dan,

My '66 SF bass has a single bridge pickup, too, as well as the black saddles. I have 3 SF Bass questions for your consideration:

1) Do you have an opinion on whether the plastic saddles and the wooden saddles sound different?

2) Do you find any difference in the 'useability' of single bridge pickup models and single neck pickup models?

3) How do you typically adjust the volume balance between the two pickups on your '67 SF double pickup model?

Harry
 

fronobulax

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mgod said:
I have what is probably a 65 but has a 64 serial number, so its among the very first SFs. Sunburst single bridge pickup, black plastic bridge saddles. Great bass, but I mostly use my 67 double pickup. Its better.

DS

I admit to hanging on your every word and treating your opinions as fact, so...

Why is the 67 better? Is it a mechanical difference you notice while playing? Different places to rest your hand, perhaps? Is it a sound difference due to plastic saddles or PU location? Is it a difference in PUs since I seem to recall the Hagstroms did evolve a little? Is it a difference in versatility, i.e. you have a wider sound palette to chose from with two PUs? Does the '67 have the "suck switch"? Do you ever use it? Inquiring minds want to know.

Thanks.
 

gilded

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Frono,

I asked first, but you asked 'better'! :lol:
 
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I have a red SF II that I bought for $300 at a pawnshop in Sacramento about 15 years ago. I'll post a pic of it one of these days. It's a player; I use it whenever I can. These days I play in an R&B cover band, so it doesn't get used as much as my Fenders. But my bandmates still dig it when I bring it to rehearsals. Oh, its original bridge p'up took a crap a few years ago, so I replaced it with a Hammon darkstar. Since I was at it, I added one of Fred's aftermarket magnets to the neck p'up. Now I can sound like Lesh on Live Dead if I crank it up.
 
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mellowgerman said:
welcome smokin bear! as frono told you above, i have a '66 starfire bass I. he also posted a pic for you to check out. great guy!
honestly though, this is the best bass I've ever played. just got it a few months ago. I plan to get a starfire II (with bisonics) at some point, but i've played one and i can honestly say that i think all those extra wires and controls in there take something away from that big woody groovalicious tone. nothing tops the single bisonic (bridge/middle position) with basic volume, tone, and input jack... but that's just my $.02

Take it from a guy who's owned three of these: an SF I and two SF II's: The neck p'up is the one you'll use for 90% of your tone, (if you're after the Lesh sound; pics of him during the red Guild era show the toggle switch in the up position,) but the bridge p'up is the one you'll go to when you need a little bit of extra bite; think of Jack on "Hey Frederick" No matter what, this is still one of the best-sounding basses ever built.
 

fronobulax

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R D Maynard said:
I have a red SF II that I bought for $300 at a pawnshop in Sacramento about 15 years ago.

A belated welcome to LTG. I especially liked your comments on which PU you use on a SF II. It supports the observation that there are a lot of SF I's out there that people are quite happy with :)
 
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Again thanks to all who replied i love the info and discussion of these lovely old instruments. I just picked up a '66 serial #ba433 and i noticed the e string pole is very loud compared to the rest of the pu. even after turning it all the way in it can cause my amp to clip if i pluck it to hard...very strange i must say. The bass is as clean and new looking as it was in 66 though hardly a mark. Wonder if it didn't get played as much because of the owner or the pu? Does any one know when they switched from the covered tuners to the reverse type? Also this is the first starfire of mine to still have the finger rests and i'm starting to see why alot of people removed them. They get in the way of things& i don't mean slapping(not that kind of player). I still can't figure out how to post pic but soon i will . peace...
Bear
 

hansmoust

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smokin-bear said:
Does any one know when they switched from the covered tuners to the reverse type?

Hello Bear,

As I mentioned earlier in this thread Guild used several different types of tuners and just like the pickups during this particular period there is no real pattern. Just a random use of different types. Lucky for us who study these kinds of things, this only happened during a relatively short period. The tuners that are on your 'new' bass were used before and after the enclosed tuners.

We still haven't seen the photos of your other bass!

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl
 

mellowgerman

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R D Maynard said:
Take it from a guy who's owned three of these: an SF I and two SF II's: The neck p'up is the one you'll use for 90% of your tone, (if you're after the Lesh sound; pics of him during the red Guild era show the toggle switch in the up position,) but the bridge p'up is the one you'll go to when you need a little bit of extra bite; think of Jack on "Hey Frederick" No matter what, this is still one of the best-sounding basses ever built.

i do value your opinion on this, but i will respectfully disagree. i have (extensively) played a SFII, I have owned a JS-II with 2 darkstars in the normal positions, and own an Epiphone EBO with an original hagstrom in the neck position. Bottom line is, I prefer the bi sonic right where it is on my starfire, with no neck pickup. there are a hand full of songs i use the epi for, but it's not enough to want a neck pickup on my starfire. in addition, my JS's bridge pickup (as well as all SF-II bridge pickups) was a hair too far toward the bridge and could never get the sound my starfire gives me (being in the middle/bridge position). half an inch means a lot with these pickups.
i guess it just comes down to personal preference.
 

mgod

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gilded said:
Dan,

My '66 SF bass has a single bridge pickup, too, as well as the black saddles. I have 3 SF Bass questions for your consideration:

1) Do you have an opinion on whether the plastic saddles and the wooden saddles sound different?

2) Do you find any difference in the 'useability' of single bridge pickup models and single neck pickup models?

3) How do you typically adjust the volume balance between the two pickups on your '67 SF double pickup model?

Harry
Sorry for the long delay:

1) Yes, and yes. But is it important? How you hit the string is far more important.

2) Yes, but I think its more specific to the bass than it is to the pickup placement. I have the above mentioned 64 which is terrific and a near mint sunburst 67 neck-pickup SF-I that I'm the 2nd owner of which is good, but not as good, but I think its because it didn't get much playing. I got a stripped maple neck-pickup I from Hans that's great. The only way to really evaluate this is to spend time acoustically with two instruments and find two that are well matched that way, and then listen.

But - in my experience, a II using the neck pickup and a neck-pickup I are close enough as to be meaningless, but a II using the back pickup and a back-pickup l are different enough to be worth noticing - obviously on a I the pickup isn't as far back. I tend to go for my 67 II and the back-pickup 64 I the most.

3) Usually both all the way up. At a certain point getting the sound through counts for more than minute subtleties, except to your hands.

DS
 

mgod

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fronobulax said:
Why is the 67 better? Is it a mechanical difference you notice while playing? Different places to rest your hand, perhaps? Is it a sound difference due to plastic saddles or PU location? Is it a difference in PUs since I seem to recall the Hagstroms did evolve a little? Is it a difference in versatility, i.e. you have a wider sound palette to chose from with two PUs? Does the '67 have the "suck switch"? Do you ever use it? Inquiring minds want to know.

Thanks.
The 67 II is my first Starfire, my 3rd bass - I got it in 1973 and have played it ever since. So, firstly, its had the most playing. Although there were plenty of years it never got touched. But acoustically its my favorite of them all, the 64 coming in 2nd. It started as a I. In 1990 when RT finished the 2nd major mod of the one-off M-85, the Hagstroms from it went into this Starfire but it also got the brass saddles from the Lesh bass. So there's one important difference. Were they Hagstroms Alembicized? Who knows? They lived there long enough, 69-74. But I haven't seen a visual difference in them. But yes, I find that it has a wider palette. Is that because after 36 years my right hand is more married to it? Could be. Yes, it it did have a suck switch, but during the 1990 mod I had it cut out (if thine suck-switch offend thee...). Now its just got a little metal plate there. My favorite recording of it is a song for Annie Stela, "Carry It All". Her record failed to come out before Capitol collapsed, but I think she put it out on her own.

Now, the 64 - I have a feeling that what makes it very good is that it had a broken and almost invisibly repaired headstock. When it arrived and I saw that, my first impulse was to yell at the seller for non-disclosure and send it back, but instead I played it for a while first. And it was actually incredible. I called around, talking to people here and there and found there's a group of luthiers who think that a properly repaired mahogany neck/head is often an improvement. So gentlemen, break your headstocks.

DS
 

gilded

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DS, thanks for the input. It certainly helps me sort out some feelings for the two Starfire basses I've had, my '66 with the bridge pickup and the '68?? SF II that was almost mint, with hang tags, Bisonics and a suck switch.

I absolutely love the '66 and so does my bass player. He and I play in a trio (drummer, me on guitars/bass, he plays bass and keys (Bill can play anything on the piano). I usually play bass a third of the time, though only because of the choice of material.

It all changed when we got the '66 SF I (headstock broken 3 times, thank you). Now, we fight over who gets to play bass on new songs. I remember we were learning a Sinatra song for a gig and he looked me in the eye and said, 'Nah, It Was A Very Good Year will sound better if I play the Bass and you play the Guitar'. Oh, sure.

The '68 SF II I bought at a show. I kept it for 30 minutes and sold it. It sounded terrible, cloudy and tubby at the same time.
Still glad I got rid of it, 'cause I knew I'd never play it.

Thanks again, Harry
 

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I have two, a '67 sunburst that's got a badly repaired headstock break (actually a mangle). It's a double pickup, all stock and sounds OK. I have another '67 that's cherry (ie. mahogany) that's got two Dark stars (started life as a SF I in the neck position) and Alembic style bridge, tailpiece and electronics. This one is just magic. With the pickups going straight to their own buffers and an active blend, it preserves the dynamics of each and neither is loaded down by anything at all. It's simply a wonderful bass. The only thing added after this was a brass nut.

Edwin


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