Sounds like...

fronobulax

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It feels like I am almost single-handedly trying to keep this thread uber-active, but hey... postCount++ 8)

So here I noted that, upon re-listening to"classic rock" that the bass sound was close to my oft-maligned JS II. And that led to the question - does a post-71 Starfire with the Guild humbuckers sound more like a pre-'71 Starfire with the Hagstroms or a a JS from the same era with the humbuckers? In other words is it the body or the pickup that has the greatest influence on the sound.

(Sure would be nice if someone who owned a post '71 Starfire responded but I can't recall too many posters here who have one).
 

h60

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I had a '76 Starfire with Guild buckers in it. Unfortunatly I've never owned or played a JS. The bass was ok with the humbuckers in it, but to be honest I had a set of dark stars ordered for it about a week after I got it.
 

fronobulax

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h60 said:
I had a '76 Starfire with Guild buckers in it. Unfortunatly I've never owned or played a JS. The bass was ok with the humbuckers in it, but to be honest I had a set of dark stars ordered for it about a week after I got it.

Thanks. Partial answer is better than none.
 

h60

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to be a bit more clear, with the Guild Humbuckers the Starfire still had the unique quality in it's tone that I've only heard in hollow and semi hollow basses.
 

mellowgerman

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h60 said:
to be a bit more clear, with the Guild Humbuckers the Starfire still had the unique quality in it's tone that I've only heard in hollow and semi hollow basses.

This is the reason i picked up my ibanez artcore bass years ago. It was a long scale, made of maple (i believe), and had a very bland sounding stock humbucker. Regardless, it still sounded closer to jack casady's starfire than any non-starfire bass I'd ever played; granted, it was still off by a long long shot. But there is a certain hollow/semi-hollow characteristic to the amplified sound... i'm guessing it has to do with unique resonance and overtones?
 

fronobulax

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Probably a threadjack but I started it and heaven knows the Bass section is not the most active part of LTG.

I'm probably an example of how a little knowledge can be dangerous. I've always has a little bit of the engineer in me and even took a college level course "The Physics of Music". (My lab project was to build a one string bass, wind a two dimensional pickup and see if various differences in sound were visible on an oscilloscope. It was fun but the most lasting impact was meeting another bass player who was a room/suite mate for the next 3 years). So when people start talking about solid body electric guitars and how the wood effects the sound, I start looking for a physical reason why that could be and what kind of effect that had on what the pickup observed. I'm somewhat mystified that people claim to hear a difference that they can attribute to the wood and in my cynical moods, wonder why they aren't sharing what they are smoking?

So, I believe a hollow body is a much more complex beast and have no trouble accepting that the wood and the "hollowness" effect the vibrational properties of the strings in a way that can be "observed" by a pickup. But I'm not sure how to describe the aspects of tone that are come from the hollow body as compared to the tone that comes from the electronics. Thus a Starfire and a JS with the same PUs would be the perfect lab experiment. Failing that the observations on hollow body sound are most interesting to me.

I note that Jack (apparently under-appreciated at LTG) Casady seems to have gone from a solid body Fender to a hollow Starfire to solid Alembics back to the hollow Signature model. That suggests to me that you can get the hollow sound if you throw enough active electronics into the mix but it is probably easier, and certainly simpler,to just start with a hollow body.

Thanks for helping me clarify my thinking.
 

Happy Face

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Too bad this thread didn't emerge a couple years back when I had one of each, both with DS's. Sold the D'A Starfire mainly because of the size.

I never really sat there and A-B's them, but I never thought there was a huge difference in sound, except, perhaps, on the attack. If you gave the string a good yank, as I tend to do.

But I still have a late 60's Yamaha hollowbody with a humbucker of some sort. Two things stand out. One is the "woody" almost acoustic tone. Verging on an upright sound. Does that make sense? (The other point is that it will happily get feedback going, especially in a small space.)

BTW - don't forget JC's stint with the Les Paul Signature bass. Saw him playing that twice. One's for sale on the Boston Craigslist for almost $3k.
 

capnjuan

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fronobulax said:
... But I'm not sure how to describe the aspects of tone that are come from the hollow body as compared to the tone that comes from the electronics...
Hi Frono; words are so awkward when it comes to sound ... I don't know either but thank you for the thread. CJ
 

mellowgerman

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Happy Face said:
BTW - don't forget JC's stint with the Les Paul Signature bass.

let's not forget these basses while we're at it :wink:
384172067_d0150ec4c8.jpg

Jack_Casady.jpg

JormaKaukonenBandBite0_2.jpg

TMI760905-VX.jpg

p12752kc867.jpg
 

danerectal

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Is that a BC Rich Seagull bass? The sixer of that originally had HB-1s for a while. What a weird connection. I can relate to chasing bass tone. This wouldn't be a bad topic to relate to the sixers themselves. There's clearly an interest in the Archtops/Hollowbodies section. I know that a '73 Starfire IV sounds different than a '73 S-90 and a '73 S-100 Deluxe. Of course there are more variables than a semi-hollow body (i.e. trapeze v. bigsby v. trapezoid tailpieces). I can say that the pickups make a big difference. Dreamlander has a JS-II with Hagstroms (small one in the bridge) and a JS-II with Guild humbuckers and the Hagstroms destroy. I've never even played a hollow bass, so my experience is limited.
 

mellowgerman

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danerectal said:
Yes. If you'd like me to demo it, I could hardly refuse. :wink: I already bought my #1 bass *for now*.

well, if you'd ever like a second-string #1 bass, let me know :mrgreen:
 

mgod

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Frono, I think the answer varies depending on your sensitivities and right-hand technique. For me, the pickup is unequivocally more important than hollow or solid. No matter what I ever did I couldn't get to the point where I enjoyed the sounds of those special 70s Guild Honkmaster(TM) pickups. My technique exacerbates the pickup's tendency to have a very nasal midrange. Gross. Although I think its probably objectively a better pickup than a Gibson Mubucker, I can actually get a better tone from one of those. But I don't.

Now about that poodle dog...

DS
 

fronobulax

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mgod said:
Frono, I think the answer varies depending on your sensitivities and right-hand technique. For me, the pickup is unequivocally more important than hollow or solid. No matter what I ever did I couldn't get to the point where I enjoyed the sounds of those special 70s Guild Honkmaster(TM) pickups. My technique exacerbates the pickup's tendency to have a very nasal midrange. Gross. Although I think its probably objectively a better pickup than a Gibson Mubucker, I can actually get a better tone from one of those. But I don't.

Now about that poodle dog...

DS

Thanks. My playing is not at the level where I realize just how much impact my technique, or lack there of, contributes to the sound but it is easy to imagine getting to that level and it makes sense that the pickup would be the driving factor.

Poodle bites. Poodle chews it.
 
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