Martin M36 experience

ESRdescollines

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Hello people,
Was just curious if somebody here on the forum has ever played or owned a Martin M36, it's a 0000 size guitar with 3 piece rosewood back. I own one since 2006, bought in Germany (I live in Belgium), a neighbour country. They are quite rare here in this part of Europe.
But to be honest, I was quite amazed about the sound and playability of this instrument. Also the price was attractive to European level (good USA made guitars are significant more expensive than in the States). So I bought it in a heartbeat and I still like it as much as the first day. After setting the neck (tussrod) and lowering a fraction of the action, it was a dream. My experience is (but this is for everybody personal) that it works best with JP 600L's or Martin SP's size 0,12, now I have Thomastik Infeld SB112 on it, not bad, but the JP's are to my ears the best. To me the instrument got a strong, round and mellow sound that I until now didn't found in other guitars. The more expensive brother is the M38, but it got two piece back and more bling of course. Don't know if there is a sound difference.
 

Frosty

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We have a few things in common.

I am the original owner of a 1981 M-36, built before Martin began using adjustable truss rods. It was my only steel string guitar for several years and it served me quite well playing coffeehouse gigs.

I love the Thomastik strings - AC112 or SB112. I also have a set of Thomastiks on my old Guild F-112. These are expensive strings here in the US! If it's not Thomastik, it's John Pearse - I use the Phosphor Bronze and Silk 610LM. They work well on just about any guitar in my experience.
 

Paddlefoot

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My M-36 is one of my favorite acoustics, an OM-28 marquis being my other favorite. I can't comment on the M-38 but I would think it would be very difficult to tell them apart by the sound. I like D'Addario PB custom lights (EJ-26-3d) on mine .011-.052. This gives me the deeper bass and the ability to bend easily on the high strings. Where are you in Belgium? I have been to Maastricht and found it a very interestig place.
 

ESRdescollines

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Hello Frosty,
Happy to hear you have the same instrument in your collection. For me it has a sound very different than other Martins. In certain manner it is undervalued, but at the other hand, the price remains affordable. A friend singer-songwriter is crazy about it's sound and ask mine frequently for recordings. I do not own a huge collection of instruments. Just this M36 from 2006, a SCGC D/PW and for one 2 months a 2nd hand Guild F50R Corona (Hans Moust thinks it is build 2003), it sounds and plays fantastic. Despite rumours about quality problems I have none after 2 months playing and testing. The only thing I did was setting the neck and lift fractional the saddlebone.
About the M36, my experience is it sounds good for Folk, Blues, Celtic, Spanish and even classic, but with it's own sound.
By the way, I think I saw some clips of you at Youtube, nice, very nice done, my respect.
What kind of music you like to play on the M36 and is it comparable to other instruments you have?
Greetz Erwin
 

ESRdescollines

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Hi Paddlefoot,
I live in a part of Belgium called the Flemish Ardennes, otherwise South East Flanders, close to the French spoken part of Belgium, city is Ronse. I know Maastricht, it is about 2hrs driving from here, historical centre and beautiful countryside to the north. As I said before, for me the M36 is undervalued. But I'm curious, I own this instrument only for 3 years, so when it starts to open after a few years more, what could be the sound evolution if it is already so nice? At the moment I have Thomastik SB111 on it, normal I use 0,12's JP or SB112. Now it's got a little bit a sharper sound, but still that mellowlike tone, not bad but I have to think about for the future. I must agree for the OM28 with you, when buying another Martin this would be the choice. At a store I played an OM28V, this was very nice and still affordable. The Marquis version is a bit expesive to me, maybe secondhand, but they're rare I suppose.
Greetz erwin
 

Paddlefoot

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I really don't think the tone is going to change a great deal so that you could listen to a recording of the guitar now and 15 years in the future and say it was better then or now. I have a 30+ year old Guild that I have had since it was new and to me a new set of strings or a different type/gauge makes more difference in the sound than how much it has aged. The M body Martins are well known for their good studio recording qualities. Play it all you can and enjoy it. Pick up up a smaller body Guild if you get a chance, they record well too.
 

Frosty

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Hi Erwin,
I purchased my M-36 new from a large guitar dealer here in the US called Mandolin Brothers. It was a relatively new model back then and I thought it was the best guitar in the shop for my style. I also tried an M-38, but I recall liking the sound of my 36 better. As I mentioned, I played the guitar for years, every day, and used it in performance situations as a solo fingerstyle guitarist. There are no electronics on the guitar, I always played to a microphone and the instrument worked very well - so, as paddlefoot says, I imagine it would record well too.

This trusty old guitar is in retirement now, I would say. It's still in great shape, the case is rather worn from road travel (actual holes in the original thermo-plastic case!). The guitar does come out at home from time to time.

I am certain that the sound of a well made guitar changes over time. Time and use make a difference. 20 years in a case, never played, won't do too much. The sound of a well used, dried out, 40+ year old guitar is something very special to my ears!

As I think about it now... I guess my ears got very familiar with the sound of that M-36 and, perhaps, some of it's personality became lost on me. I realize now that is why I like to play different guitars - each has it's own personality and some of it is a "family sound". The family sound of Guild is different from Martin. The F50R sounds different from the D55, but they share something... if that makes sense. I find what is "different" in the sound of an acoustic guitar to be inspirational. The midrange compression of a good old Gibson J-50, the rich and creamy tone of a good Guild D-55/60, etc.
 

ESRdescollines

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Well, I'm happy not to be the only one in the world with an M36. Frosty, i must agree about the different sounds on acoustic brands that this makes it just so interesting. Of course everybody got his own taste and preferences and we may be happy it is like that. I just hope that the tradition of building instruments stays like it is, but I'm afraid a lot of things are changing and the shareholders predict what is for sale nowadays and also China plays an important role. A German woodtrader told me has just 10perc. of the stock had in the past. When forests has to be sold, he selected the excellent trees and that it was. Now the Chinese come and buy the whole wood. They transport the trees to China, take the premium quality for themselves, second goes to Vietnam etc., third quality comes back to Europe. If this is the road we follow, I predict all the instruments of quality we have will become extremely expensive and new ones will be or cheap carton boxes, or the good ones unpayable.
 

Paddlefoot

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You know guys I can't argue about the sound changing over time and I think to a certain degree it's very true that it does. What I was saying is that I didn't think it would be so much that you would have to worry about not liking the sound as the instrument aged or having it become too different. I just had another thought about this, The Guild D-35 that I bought back in '79 was chosen from a group of about 8 or 10 identical guitars. My musician friend and I both agreed that it was the best sounding guitar in the bunch. It has been played a good bit over the years but certainly not as much as Frosty's M-36. This guitar still sounds better than most. I wonder if some just start out so good they don't change much. I think the change that I notice the most is from the play wear. I love my old guitars that get the back of the neck polished from hands being on it and the fretboards that have gotten dark and slick polished from just playing them. I used to smoke a pipe and my old guitars alway kind of remind me of the way a burlwood pipe sort of gets personal after enjoying long use.
 

ESRdescollines

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In fact some woods do change over the years, not all. Spruce and Rosewood have density changes, their cellular structure will evoluate. Also climate conditions and resonation by sounds or pressure have their influence. How it comes the sound of older guitars is in certain way better than new ones of the same type and brand? I must agree with you Paddlefoot, there are no two guitars exactly the same, thanks to the nature, there are no two exactly the same trees either. And of course the construction, tuning inside and the luthiers technical and musical philosophy have influence. There are also woods that practically don't change, I believe cedar is one of them. I am not specialized in this stuff, so if there are statements wrong do not hesitate to correct, I'm still learning even at 46.
 

adorshki

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HI to both Frosty and Paddlefoot and by the way, welcome Erwin! I'm also extremely interested in what develops timbre in a guitar. While I can't remember where I read this, I DO distinctly remember coming across something several years ago which specifically mentioned how the aging of the glue allowed greater vibration of the top but I haven't come across that idea on this forum, only the references to the aging of the wood and finish. I'm looking for feedback from folks like you guys, as I believe you both have broader experience than myself.
What I CAN say from personal experience is that after a couple of years my D25 was noticably richer in timbre when the temperature was in an ideal range of about 85 deg (F), even up to the mid 90's. This would be outdoors in California summertime so humidity would be low but not dry as in midwest winters. I put that together with the fact that the glue is subjected to heat to soften it during certain repair operations and came up with the idea that perhaps the glue had softened just enough to allow a bit more more top vibration. It definitely loses some "oomph" when temps are below about 70f. What say you? And I'm wondering if Hideglue might have any special insights?
 

hideglue

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I really have no say on ambient temperatures and its effect on timbre.

But...

I've had the unusual perspective of being the first to string-up, play & hear thousands of
"fresh-off-the-line" guitars. All I can say is a lot were duds, and maybe always will be. But some some sort of transformation happened overnight to other duds. Maybe the guitar realized it was no longer a tree...yeah, man (kidding)...but kinda serious as well; the next day they were, tonally, completely different instruments.
 

ESRdescollines

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Hi Hideglue, about the overnight changin' guitars. You string them I read. New strings need also time for their tensioned position, maybe this transforms zombies to living guitars. To Adorshki, thanks for the welcome by the way, I didn't realize that glue could affect sound by climate influence, but for sure it is also a possibility. I'm new to LTG, it is very interesting to me, because there are experienced people on the thread who know what they are talking about. I had for + 20 years a 250 dollar guitar, which I played now and then, without any ambition to develop my skills (bad sounding and playability, crap guitar). Until it broke back in 2006, decided to buy something good, and see the sound of the M36 did wonders, realised I wasn't that bad player at all, the new guitar did all the old one was not able to do, and now I even got a secondhand F50R. My search for information about the Guild, brought me to LTG. Greetz Erwin
 

Paddlefoot

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I have had the same experience as HG and Erwin on the strings. I have a Martin D-28 Grand Marquis that I switched over from Martin SPs to D'Addario's PB custom lights and it was like I had ruined the guitar. I changed the strings a couple hours before turning in for the night and just could not get the guitar to stay in tune or up to pitch. It had a flat, thumpy tone. Was just terrible. The next day I decided to work with it just a little more before pulling those strings off. I tuned it to pitch and started to play and it was just fantastic. I have seen a similar thing happen when a guitar has been left unstrung for a while when being worked on. It can take a while before it settles in under tension.
I think the glue vs. temperature idea is interesting too. I have just started working with hide glue so I can't give much firm info on it. I would think that if a guitar built with hide glue sounded different when at a warmer temp it would probably be because of the wood expanding or possibly being more flexible in that condition. My understanding of hide glue is that it is noted for Not allowing creep until it reaches it's limit and just fails. PVA glues have more give to them but are not as temp sensitive during the initial build process. I don't know anything about what glues Guild used but most companies are using PVA glues nowdays.
 

adorshki

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Thanks guys! I know the differences on my '25 were independant of string changes 'cause I started paying attention to how/when it happened after the first time I noticed it. Now I know it definitely sounds better when it's warmer, starting at about 80F.
And Erwin, isn't it great what a good guitar will do for you! Same thing happened for me when I got my D25, I could hear things I never heard clearly before, and it inspired me to to start composing with a broader palette so to speak.
 

ESRdescollines

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Yes, it is really fine that quality guitars give so much back to their players. Honestly I blame myself, I didn't do it earlier. Within the time of three years I got three good guitars, which I love equally, though they are all different soundwise. With the Guild F50R capoed I can produce pianolike tones, when playin John Hurt, it sounds fantastic. You can play it soft or hard, it does everything, and what a full deep sound. The secondhand SCGC D/PW I got, gives a melancholic "pre war" sound, it is a bottomline guitar of Santa Cruz, but plays like butter and really does what is expected. What I like the most is it plays so easy, good tuning of the neck and action perhaps. And last one the M36 has its own sound, a bit a prewar archtoplike sound, I find, but that's subjective. This guitar reacts clear to different types of strings, the basic sound stays the same but it really gives a deeper or clearer tone with other strings.
 
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