Craigslist Amp ID...

somecallmetim

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Any guesses?

guildamp.jpg


I emailed the guy, Just thinking one of y'all might be able to fill in the blanks...
 

matsickma

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Guild Thunderbird Amp, 2nd series with 2-12 Jensen Concerto speakers and a pair of 7591A finals (my favorite). It is missing a piece of aluminum angle edging that can be had at Home Depot for about $5. Great amp. If you are within driving distance I recommend you make him an offer and pick it up. I would if I was close by. You might imply to him he would be able to sell the Epi easier if the amp wasn't part of the deal. These amp are expensive to ship and most people don't know how to pack them so when shipped they often come in damaged.

M
 

somecallmetim

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I picked this up after work yesterday. It's in pretty nice cosmetic shape, apart from the missing trim up front its missing one of the grills in back. Tolex is very nice.

Functionally it's got a couple of issues. The Trem/Verb channel is nothing but fuzz, no clean headroom, kinda thin & weak. The trem & verb work, some times the footswitch buttons work, some times not. There is a third button on the FS that turns the T/V channel off, I hear a relay click. This seems odd to me. The plain channel sounds good. I wonder if this has been modded so that you jump the two channels together, use the switch as an overdrive??? It sounds kinda cool setup like that, in a funky sorta way. It still has all the original tubes.

I'll dig into this next week, now time for some amp pron...


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It Looks nice next to The ThunderBass...

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capnjuan

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somecallmetim said:
.... The Trem/Verb channel is nothing but fuzz, no clean headroom, kinda thin & weak. The trem & verb work, some times the footswitch buttons work, some times not. There is a third button on the FS that turns the T/V channel off, I hear a relay click ..
Hi Tim; congratulations on your new amp. I put the schematic up at Prowess Amps ... here: Superbird schematic. That schematic has the two preamp channels, effects, and power supply; it does not have the driver/output tubes/OT on it. There's a relay that looks like it controls the on/off for the fuzz. Mesas use relays to control effects. The contacts in the relay could be burned or pitted ... or it could be the switch in the FS box. Good luck with your amp. CJ
 

matsickma

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Wow. That amp is very unusual. It is a special version of a Superbird. I have seen info on one of the amps before. About 5 years ago a guy was selling one of these amps which was previously owned by Muddy Waters. A Superbird usually comes with a piggy back arrangement where the preamp is in the "head" and the power amp speakers are in the cab. The footswitch you described should control Reverb, Tremelo and Fuzz. That middle switch that is not labled is the Fuzz ON/OFF and is not a channel switching switch. The schematic Capn sent you covers the Thunderbird, Superbird I and Superbird II. The relay you are hearing is specific to the Superbird preamp. The Thunderbird doesn't have it. I am pretty sure it is used to activate the Fuzz. (Maybe Capn can review the schematic and he can explain the function to us.) A Superbird normally uses 8417 power tubes and the Thunderbird, 2nd generation, will use 7591A tubes.

Your amp looks to have the 7591A power tubes. Can you confirm what the power tubes are and what the serial number is. Does it have a prefix of letters before the numbers?

Thanks,

M
 

capnjuan

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Hi Mike; as ever, there's always the question of whether the amp matches the schematic but ... this is the preamp schematic for both the V2 Thunderbird and the Superbird with the tremolo upper right in red, the reverb on the far right in magenta, and the fuzz on the lower left in green.

superbirdeffects.jpg



In this schematic, there's a tap at the DC rail 'E' powering the relay, on/off footswitch, and 1/2 a 12AX7. There's a constant voltage on the relay coil keeping the contacts in the fuzz/off position. Switched 'on', the footswitch allows the current to run to ground de-energizing the coil, and the spring in the relay throws the contacts. Also note the provision at the top edge for a bridging cap in the circuit for a model not built with fuzz ... the Thunderbird?

superbirdfuzz.jpg



Fuzz off; the signal from the channel 2 input jack loop-de-loops through the relay contact arms and continues to the next gain stage.

superbirdfuzzoff.jpg



Fuzz on; when the coil is de-energized, the contacts move putting the 12AX7 in the circuit. I don't know exactly how the fuzz effect is created ... but this is how the relay puts that tube in/out of the circuit.

suerbirdfuzzon.jpg



Opening the footswitch and drenching all three switch bodies with lubricating-type contact cleaner will help get rid of corrosion on the contacts and lubricate the spring. If it's the switch and short of replacing it, this would clear the balky on/off. If cleaning / replacing the switch doesn't do it then chances are the relay contacts are burned and/or the spring is weak. Finding one that throws contacts, that's easy ... finding one whose pins line up with the layout on the circuit board ... that's another matter.
 

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One trick that I was shown back when I was a pup was to spray a dollar bill with contact cleaner, slide it between the contacts and give it a vigorous back and forth. If you have room for it that is...
 

dapmdave

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Default said:
One trick that I was shown back when I was a pup was to spray a dollar bill with contact cleaner, slide it between the contacts and give it a vigorous back and forth. If you have room for it that is...

Probably takes a fiver, nowadays. Can't do much with $1

Dave :D
 

capnjuan

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Hi Dave; that will work on something like a guitar selector switch where the contacts are accessible. In the footswitch, the contacts are contained in a plastic body and the relay ... well ...without seeing it ... some of them have clear plastic housings that can be squeezed and popped off. By all means, if the contacts can be reached .... other relays ... they're just a block with the base force-fitted into the cap ... pics would help but for the cost of the relay ... J
 

somecallmetim

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The Capn' hits another one out of the park, dirty contacts were the culprit. A little contact clean & lube, shes singing.

The offending relay...

DSCF0074.jpg


Preamp, Note that it says "New"...

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Footswitch Innards...
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The SN is 4101. it has 8417 power tubes, with a 7247 PI.
 

matsickma

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Great. With that info, and the earlier sighting of the Muddy Waters Superbird in TBird cab, I think it is safe to say that the origional Superbirds came packed in a Thunderbird cabinet (or it was available as an option). Later models, Superbird I and Superbird II, came in a piggy back arrangement.

M
 

capnjuan

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Hi Tim; well, there's some luck ... exposed contacts and right where you can get at it. I put up the output section schematic Here. I think you're reading the speaker code date correctly; the EM1250s were standard originals; some models offered upgrades to JBLs. As long as you have it open, you can check the date codes on the pots. You probably already know that the 7247 is a specialized form of a twin triode; the 'front half' facing the circuit is identical to a 12AX7 and the 'back half' facing output tubes is identical to a 12AU7 with a lower gain factor but higher voltage handling ability than a 12AX7; there's a 15K/2W plate resistor on the driver 1/2 dropping about 300vdc.

The power schematic indicates 8417s for the Superbird version, 7591s for the 2nd generation Thunderbird. The good news is that 8417 lovers are crazy about them and the individual bias pots will allow you to use mis-matched tubes. The bad news is that they are no longer in production and pretty spendy for reliable ones. They have the same pinouts as 6L6s but, depending on you ability and interests, you may not be able to get them to bias where you want them. I re-powered a Guild 8417 Thunderbass head to 6L6s. You may need to get into the bias supply and swap out the 3.3K bias resistor for 2.7K, 2.2K, or whatever gets you where you want to go. Good luck with your amp. CJ
 

somecallmetim

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Thanks Again.

The good news is that she is running properly & sounding good with the 8417s & I imagine that I'll keep running them. My Tbass was a bit of a basketcase, I didn't mind doing the mods to it. I'll have to update that thread...

-t
 

matsickma

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The Thunderbird Version 2 and Superbirds are 1968 era amps. Guild was changing models, styles and designs on their amps rapidly at this time. The Thunderbird v1, v2 and Superbirds used circuit boards. By 1969 they returned to full point-to-point wiring and had redesigned most of their amps. In the 5 year period from 1965 to 1970 they issued a variety of designs an then closed down the amp group near the end of 1970. It is very likely that in many cases the parts would be pulled from older inventory. It would be interesting to find the newest part for a better date estimate. If their was a way to date that relay that would give you the most accurate date because to my knowledge it was only used on Superbirds.

M
 

capnjuan

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Craigslisted Superstar; $450 Maybe the same amp owned by BBer Kevin V discussed in this LTG thread. 100 watts of ball-knocking 6L6 power and, as matsickma pointed out earlier, point-to-point wiring and a relative of the (V2) Thunderbird.

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Seller says trem doesn't work; chances are it's the LDR; light dependent resistor or 'roach' in Fenderspeak that allows the trem to go on/off without clicks or pops - used by Fender, Ampeg, Guild and others. $30-$40 for the part, not that big a deal to replace. Another $125-$150 for fresh caps.

superstartremroach.jpg
 
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