Introducing Myself and My Bass

Hey Guild fans,

I'm new here. I've been the proud owner of a Guild Starfire II bass for almost 4 years and I thought that some of you might like to see it/hear about it.

According to its serial number, my bass is from 1969. Over the years it's gone through many changes and modifications, none of which I have performed (avert your eyes, Guild purists!). I bought the bass at Cambridge Music in Cambridge, MA when I was still in high school. It played and sounded so beautifully from the moment I touched it that I knew I had to have it. Some might not like its looks, but I think it's gorgeous.

Anyway, the bass is fretless and I'm not sure if it came out of the factory like that or not. Someone on here might be able to clue me in on that. There seems to be a thin layer of epoxy-like coating on the fingerboard. Additionally, the pickups were swapped out for 4 (yes, 4!) Bartolini jazz pickups, which are housed in wooden blocks as you can see. The bridge was changed to an original Badass and it appears as if the entire neck was raised ever so slightly to accommodate the extra height of this bridge compared to the original guild one. The tuners have also been swapped for some standard Schaller keys that must date from the late 80's or so because they say W. Germany on the back of them. The headstock seems to have been covered with a plain, black wooden overlay and I'm not 100% sure why. It doesn't look like the headstock ever broke, so I think this is again to accommodate the size of the new(er) tuners. I had the bass rewired by Jim Mouradian (Boston area guys probably know him--he's a gear magician) and it sounds pretty damn good in my opinion. I've been playing it with D'addario chrome flats for the past few years and couldn't complain one bit about anything.

Here are some pictures of my bass:





Now I have another question for you. When I bought the bass, it came with the original case and the following set of Guild humbuckers:





I was told that Guild switched from Hagstrom pickups to these in 1970. Since my bass is from '69, is it possible that these are the original pickups? Either way, might these be worth anything if I were to sell them? I'm quite satisfied with the way my bass sounds now and since restoring the bass back to its original condition is practically impossible at this point, I might as well get rid of the p'ups if I can. What do you think?

Thanks for reading,
Alex

Welcome to LTG, bassman. I know nothing about bass and little about pickups, but those who do should be along soon to help.

Welcome, Welcome , Welcome. Don't know anything about basses ? other than that they sound pretty cool, but Kyrsh should be along any minute and check out his music on the web , it's pretty cool.
Ltp 62

Totally out of my element, bassman, except to say....WELCOME!
Bass men will follow with much knowledge and enthusiasm for one more in their inner circle!

Enjoy,
Joe

The general consensus is that there are fewer fans of the buckers, than the Hagstroms or the Hammond reproductions of the Hags.

Cool bass!

wellcome and congrats to this cool sf2b.

Hi Alex and welcome to LTG; can't answer your question about the p/u's but somebody will have something useful to say. CJ

Welcome.

It is hard to be offended by Starfire mods after what Jack Casady and Phil Lesh did to their Starfires so the purists will avert their eyes and focus on what remains.

Serial number? Should be on the back of the headstock and on the label inside. That would confirm the 1969 date although it is not always true the the bass with the lower serial number was the one that left the assembly line first. Label might also tell us what the original finish was since the pictures make it look like a darker cherry than I have seen before.

Guild used a plastic overlay on the face of the headstock. The plastic often shrank over time leaving a white outline or worse. It is quite possible that someone decided to remove plastic rather than repair it, which might explain the headstock.

Since I don't play fretless I have never really payed attention to if and when Guild offered fretless as an option but I'd guess it was an aftermarket alteration.

When swapping the PUs, it looks like someone added an extra switch near where the original "bass boost' (or "suck" depending upon your frame of mind) switch was. I presume they have something to do with the quad PUs rather than a tone mod for the neck.

The PUs you pictured are the Guild Humbuckers. You don't see a lot of them until 1971 although there are documented appearances in late 1970. It is possible they were the original but, IMO, it is more likely that someone replaced the Hagstroms with them. It seems obscene 30+ years later but there were lots of gear heads who swapped the Hagstroms out for Guild's "new" PU.

There are usually a couple of Guild bass humbuckers on eBay. They seem to not sell at $200 each. It appears, however, that you have a set and the mounting rings so there is some value. My guess is that you could get $500 if you were very, very patient and waited for someone who was restoring a 1971 or later Starfire II, JS II or M-85 II to original condition. If you listed the package at $200 it would probably move very quickly. Do, however, keep the rings and both PUs as a set since the bridge and neck PUs are not identical.

And here's some Starfire Bass Porn for you. BA-1662 appears to be showing the headstock shrinkage I mentioned.

Thanks so much for the responses everyone! I'm certainly glad that I found this forum.

fronobulax said:

Welcome.

It is hard to be offended by Starfire mods after what Jack Casady and Phil Lesh did to their Starfires so the purists will avert their eyes and focus on what remains.

Serial number? Should be on the back of the headstock and on the label inside. That would confirm the 1969 date although it is not always true the the bass with the lower serial number was the one that left the assembly line first. Label might also tell us what the original finish was since the pictures make it look like a darker cherry than I have seen before.

Guild used a plastic overlay on the face of the headstock. The plastic often shrank over time leaving a white outline or worse. It is quite possible that someone decided to remove plastic rather than repair it, which might explain the headstock.

Since I don't play fretless I have never really payed attention to if and when Guild offered fretless as an option but I'd guess it was an aftermarket alteration.

When swapping the PUs, it looks like someone added an extra switch near where the original "bass boost' (or "suck" depending upon your frame of mind) switch was. I presume they have something to do with the quad PUs rather than a tone mod for the neck.

The PUs you pictured are the Guild Humbuckers. You don't see a lot of them until 1971 although there are documented appearances in late 1970. It is possible they were the original but, IMO, it is more likely that someone replaced the Hagstroms with them. It seems obscene 30+ years later but there were lots of gear heads who swapped the Hagstroms out for Guild's "new" PU.

There are usually a couple of Guild bass humbuckers on eBay. They seem to not sell at $200 each. It appears, however, that you have a set and the mounting rings so there is some value. My guess is that you could get $500 if you were very, very patient and waited for someone who was restoring a 1971 or later Starfire II, JS II or M-85 II to original condition. If you listed the package at $200 it would probably move very quickly. Do, however, keep the rings and both PUs as a set since the bridge and neck PUs are not identical.

And here's some Starfire Bass Porn for you. BA-1662 appears to be showing the headstock shrinkage I mentioned.

Click to expand...

I don't have the serial number on hand (I'm at work), but I did check it on the Guild website a few years ago to confirm that the bass is from '69. The inside label says that cherry was the original finish. Unfortunately, the pictures I posted aren't great and they make the bass look darker than it actually is.

Here's another picture I took a few years ago:



The shrinking overlay could certainly explain the headstock mod. Thanks for pointing that out.

The way that Jim Mouradian configured the bass is to have the big switch on the lower horn toggle between selecting the bridge bank of pickups, the neck one or both. There is then a volume and tone knob for each bank. The smaller switches select between the pickups in each bank. The master volume is on the lower horn near the big switch, as I believe it is in most Starfires. This setup gives me a lot of different options to create different sounds, although I usually stick to one configuration (all pickups on).

Good to know about the pickups. I wish the previous owner had left the original hagstroms as well as the Guild 'buckers! I might try my luck with those on ebay in the near future.

Thanks so much for that link. Looking at all of those beautiful Starfires only makes me want another one!

-Alex

bassmanpatsfan18 said:

Thanks so much for that link. Looking at all of those beautiful Starfires only makes me want another one!

Click to expand...

Welcome, Alex. Interesting bass you've got there. Saw you avatar on Talkbass.com the other day and would have messaged you about it if I wasn't on my way out the door. Good to see you found LTG -- a far superior and friendlier forum, but don't tell the TBer's I said that!

Also, in regard to the quote above, looks like frono just infected you with "the addiction." It's okay though, we're a good support group here.

Have you ever played an original starfire with the bisonics? Or one with Dark Stars?

mellowgerman said:

bassmanpatsfan18 said:

Thanks so much for that link. Looking at all of those beautiful Starfires only makes me want another one!

Click to expand...

Welcome, Alex. Interesting bass you've got there. Saw you avatar on Talkbass.com the other day and would have messaged you about it if I wasn't on my way out the door. Good to see you found LTG -- a far superior and friendlier forum, but don't tell the TBer's I said that!

Also, in regard to the quote above, looks like frono just infected you with "the addiction." It's okay though, we're a good support group here.

Have you ever played an original starfire with the bisonics? Or one with Dark Stars?

Click to expand...

Yeah I'm very familiar with "the addiction" and GAS. It looks like this forum will only make my need for more gear even greater. Thanks a lot!

I've never played an original starfire, actually. Other than mine, I've only ever played a few DeArmond ones. I'd love to try out an original with the bisonics someday.

Hello, fellow Pats fan! You're welcome to try out my DeArmond with Dark Stars sometime if you like. Plus heavy electronics mods internally...

Rusty the Scoob said:

Hello, fellow Pats fan! You're welcome to try out my DeArmond with Dark Stars sometime if you like. Plus heavy electronics mods internally...

Click to expand...

Thanks! I'd love to come check it out, but unfortunately I haven't been in Boston much lately being in college and traveling this summer and all.

Welcome aboard, Alex!

Go Pats!

Chazmo said:

Welcome aboard, Alex!

Go Pats!

Click to expand...

Where's a moderator when you need one? This sports talk is as offensive as Global Warming and Current American Politics!!!!!

To get on topic, there is a JS II on eBay that seems to have found a similar solution to getting smaller PUs to fit into the cavity.

fronobulax said:

Where's a moderator when you need one? This sports talk is as offensive as Global Warming and Current American Politics!!!!!

Click to expand...

+1

fronobulax said:

To get on topic, there is a JS II on eBay that seems to have found a similar solution to getting smaller PUs to fit into the cavity.

Click to expand...

Blasphemy! Unless those EMG's have bar magnets I imagine the string output balance on that bass would be horrible.

^ I saw that. It looks to be a 70's (I think?) era bass in okay condition. I'm a little tempted, but I'm not a huge fan of EMGs and I don't have the money. I would, however, be interested in hearing how it sounds.

[veer]
Wise guys... Must be blowback from Roger Clemens purjury charges.

I'll remind folks that Roger is a Texan, not a New Englander.
[/veer]

Chazmo said:

[veer]
Wise guys... Must be blowback from Roger Clemens purjury charges.

I'll remind folks that Roger is a Texan, not a New Englander.
[/veer]

Click to expand...

Who is Roger Clemens? Did he tape opponent's signals?

The bass with the modified PUs is a JS II which by definition dates it to the '70's. It is a very sweet bass to play but with the stock humbuckers it is, in my opinion, a one trick pony, sound wise. However I just put roundwounds on mine and very much like the "new" sound so maybe I have not given the PUs the credit they deserve. I don't have enough experience to predict how other PUs will sound but I have to believe the modified bass will sound much different.