Standard Series is going strictly cutaway

Consulting the 2013 we were given (and this has been at or available to dealers for a while), all the Standards are equipped with D-TAR Wavelength pickups...save for the F-20 Standard and F212XL Standard...but then there is the F-20E and the F212XLCE. The acoustic bass has a Fishman.

Oh, the F-20/20E does not have a cutaway. SAVE!

It occurs to me that there may be some misunderstanding here. Just to be clear....

The Standard Series is a New Hartford invention that was introduced about three years ago. We're not talking about the Traditional Series guitars. AFAIK, there is no change to the Traditional Series guitars (like the D-55, etc.)

Standard Series guitars are based on a satin neck which is attached to the body after finishing.

The Standard Series guitars will also now have satin finished on the back and sides of the body, as was true of the 2013 F30RCE that was among the B stock guitars on Friday.

chazmo said:

It occurs to me that there may be some misunderstanding here. Just to be clear....

The Standard Series is a New Hartford invention that was introduced about three years ago. We're not talking about the Traditional Series guitars. AFAIK, there is no change to the Traditional Series guitars (like the D-55, etc.)

Standard Series guitars are based on a satin neck which is attached to the body after finishing.

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HI Chazmo...

Well...good...I stand overreacted and mis-understood/mis-informed as to what you were saying...althought no non cut F212XL seems a real shame. I still have to wonder if this "tinkering" is a "red sky by morning" for Guild. They brought out the Orpheum line...these startling changes to the standard line. I wonder what is next down the road.

I just wish they would let Guild be the Guild it was, Hoboken/early Westerly style...and could be again. From the people I have talked to...this is where the interest lies. Also...they really need to get more guitars out to more dealers in more areas of the country...this issue is really really hampering them in the marketplace. I kinda hate to say it...but I almost...almost feel like they really need to get production up, and get Guild into Guitar Center, where so much of the folks in the marketplace shop. Yeah...I know...that is far far from and ideal situation, for a number of valid reasons, and not remotely possible production wise at this point...but they have to find a way to get Guild our there to the market in numbers...and not just on the web...but out there in public, in brick and mortar stores, where players can have easier access to them.

I feel better knowing that I was wrong thinking...but I'm still nervous for Guild...

A little crow for breakfast for me perhaps?

Best Regards
duff

chazmo said:

duff,

You need to come to the next LMG!!

I'll be honest... Even the crazy optimistic Guild faithful among us (cough, cough) recognize and struggle with some of the troubles you are talking about. But I think a lot of your concerns would be allayed by spending time with these people.

I don't know what tomorrow will bring, but I'm hoping a bunch of new Guilds will be seen in 2014. I wish I'd asked a follow-on question about the Standard Series, but we were all anxious to get the jam started!!

(wish you'd been there!)

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HI Chazmo...

Oh how I really wanted to be there at LMG last year...AND...this year...but LMG came just a bit to quick on the heels of Healdsburg for me this year. I would really really love to come next year. I think it is so cool this intimate relationship you have with the "Gang of Guild". It does give me some hope for Guild, that they seem to care enough to get together with you good folks...but...alas...they are still owned by Fender, and Fender is still run by Larry Thomas...and Larry is a business man through and through. The number$$$ are important to him...and the other shareholders...alas.

Best Regards
duff

I guess we all kind of missed this...the Standard D40's and 50's w/o electronics were in the 2012 price list, but none except those mentioned above are in the 2013 price list which came out in late Winter/early Spring. The G312 12-string was/is in neither.

Upon quiet contemplation with a cup of green tea, could it be that there is a certain emulation of Taylor here? I remember when we saw the first D-40 Standard at LMG 1 my first thought was it was Guild's Taylor-clone. Must have been the satin neck. The first iteration used a poly filler, though the final finish was nitro, trying to get them to cure faster...and hence out the door. Last year they were very specific that the Standards were ALL nitro.

Maybe my comparison with the dreaded T-guitar is harsh. OK, try this...Martin Performer Series? Now I am not all up to snuff on their product line, but are there any non-cutaway Performers? What is the Performer's competition?...Taylor??? Hmmm, slimmer satin finished neck, cutaway, excellent electronics (D-TAR in almost all cases)...

If Guild currently only built guitars that were clones of their previous Westerly RI products, then their current offerings would be competing foremost with those Westerly instruments.

I like that they are trying some different approaches, & seeing what works best.

@mcduffnw: There probably wouldn't be any new Guild guitars being produced today, if FMIC hadn't purchased Guild way-back-when.

@Lend27: I think the F47 is a very sweet guitar. You could get one in maple, to complement your other rosewood & mahogany Guilds. Both natural finish & antique sunburst are available. http://www.guildguitars.com/instruments/details/?partno=3854007837

Welp...

I frankly don't know how Guild can sell new guitars at all despite building a wonderful product. When you compare the prices of new vs used, to me it's a no brainer to buy used. I just don't see that much value in having a factory warranty (in 50yrs of playing I've never had a warranty issue with any guitar I've owned).

But I wish only the best for the hard-working folks in NH who are continuing to build spectacular instruments. Guild will always be #1 with me!

Bill

'74 D-40
'06 D-40 Bluegrass Jubilee
'06 D-55

All equipped with K&K Pure Mini pups.

I'll chime in to say that I prefer non-cutaways, especially with my Ovations. However, that F30-RCE at LMG IV that jeffcoop mentioned was really nice, despite the cutaway. Maybe I was biased by the satin back and sides, which I prefer. I'm probably in the minority in appreciating the Standard series from the standpoint of being more affordable. In some cases, $400-$500 can be a tipping point in deciding to purchase.

I equate satin finish with cheap(er). Raising prices significantly while cheapening the finish seems kind of odd. At least they're not going poly.

charliea said:

I equate satin finish with cheap(er). Raising prices significantly while cheapening the finish seems kind of odd. At least they're not going poly.

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I personally would prefer a good satin finish over gloss any day. I actually associate gloss with cheaper instruments. Go figure!

We were told at LMGIV that the high end instruments were selling well. Therefore one would assume that if any series would be expanded it would be the high end. Given the limited production capacity at NH, an expansion of one line would seem to necessitate the contraction of another line. From a marketing/production view it makes perfect sense to reduce production of a slower moving series. If body style "A" is not selling as well as body style "B" then it makes no sense to keep producing it.

It also helps to differentiate one series from the next. Orpheums (high end) can be had with slope shoulders. Patriarchs (high end) emulate the classics. Newark Street hits middle of the road price points. Traditional series has a full array of models. The Standard series does not have to be an all encompassing line. Going all cut away helps to contract and define a series that is evidently a slow growth area. Guild is growing, and I have to assume that the reason for their growth is a well thought out plan of maximizing market share. Since they have decided to go all cut away for one line tells me they have examined their options and made a decision based on sales and not on the likes and dislikes of a few of old gassers like me.

I'm still waiting for a blonde Newark Street Starfire III. May never happen. But, I'm still a Guild fan, even with the road crew T shirts.

In Guild we trust. :encouragement:

The satin finish on the neck makes it easier to play,

BUT.............. I would never consider a guitar with a cutaway. I don't need it and it detracts from the looks and sound of the instrument.

Just my less than humble opinion.

My cutaway F212XLCE doesn't sound quite as good as the F212XL, but it doesn't sound bad, either. I doubt most folks would notice the difference. The cutaway market is, I think, for guys who mostly play amplified, in which case, what does it matter how it sounds acoustic? IMO as soon as you plug in, it's all electric music.

Am I mistaken or has Taylor also (earlier) discontinued regular production of their non-acoustic, regular bodied guitars? Maybe its just a series or two that has thrown me. Friend tried to buy/order a concert-size spruce/mahogany guitar and had to accept a small cutaway with slotted headstock; no problem, a custom made for the Road Shows, but he could not get what he (thought) he wanted...

Taylor hasn't discontinued guitars without cutaways, at least not that I've heard, but you can't get anything without electronics unless special ordered. At least that's my understanding.

mcduffnw said:

...but...alas...they are still owned by Fender, and Fender is still run by Larry Thomas...and Larry is a business man through and through. The number$$$ are important to him...and the other shareholders...alas.

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duff: Yes, numbers are important, you can't run a successful business just for fun, but you should have seen Larry Thomas at NAMM this year, I met him there and listened to him, he was really passionate selling Guilds to the dealers there. See also my NAMM reports with pictures of him.
Ralf

Speaking of Taylor Bernie, at LMG IV I asked management on the stage during the Q&A if they could ever see Guild going to a BTO program in their custom shop, rather than the limited run approach they employ now. They said yes, they were working on it.

If true that is a really silly move on Guild's part IMHO. I would never buy an acoustic with a cutaway, it just doesn't fit my style of playing, I find cutaway models to sound less "full" for lack of a better description and I don't really play past the 15th fret, which I can hit fine on my none cutaway acoustics. Cutaways make sense for certain styles of playing and have their use but I think making the Standard Series strictly cutaway is a poor decision if it happens.

Plenty of "pre-loved" non-cutaways available...perhaps Guild will come to see that they've made an error, perhaps not.