08 Tacoma's

[Cashdog]

Hey guys,

Sorry if this has been covered, but I've been searching and haven't found an answer yet. Was there any noticeable drop off in quality in the Tacoma guitars after the decision to move to CT? I'm considering one right now that was probably made in late spring or early summer of that year.

Thanks,
Mark

 

[capnjuan]

Hi Cashdog; if it's NOS or used and has a serial #, it's probably ok. If the guitar or the label is stamped 'Used' .... eh ... that's a different story. What model is it; a Contemporary ... 'CO' or 'CV'? These models are no longer in the Guild catalog for design reasons. In 2009 Guild sold a disturbingly large number of Contemporary and Traditional models through the 'gray' market ... without warranty and not through bona fide Guild distributors. If you're asking did the announcement of the move kill QA/QC in Tacoma ... there's probably an argument to be made that QA/QC was a contributing factor in closing Tacoma in the first place. Despite all of this, they are plenty of first-class Tacoma Guilds.

 

[Scratch]

Hi Cashdog; if it's NOS or used and has a serial #, it's probably ok. If the guitar or the label is stamped 'Used' .... eh ... that's a different story. What model is it; a Contemporary ... 'CO' or 'CV'? These models are no longer in the Guild catalog for design reasons. In 2009 Guild sold a disturbingly large number of Contemporary and Traditional models through the 'gray' market ... without warranty and not through bona fide Guild distributors. If you're asking did the announcement of the move kill QA/QC in Tacoma ... there's probably an argument to be made that QA/QC was a contributing factor in closing Tacoma in the first place. Despite all of this, they are plenty of first-class Tacoma Guilds.

+1. My Tacoma D40 (2005) and F40 (2008) are outstanding and most worthy of comparison with any top-drawer competitor. As John states, however; be wary of USED Tacoma CVs. The CV1 in the Guild corral; although now a beautiful player, has cost more to repair than to purchase.

 

[Cashdog]

Not a contemporary. This one's a very lighly used D50. I'll double check on the "used" or "2nd" stamps or marks on the tag, but I'm pretty sure I already asked about that. Kinda lost track cause I've been looking at so many lately. Unfortunately there all online, as they seem to be kind off scarce in this neck of the woods.

 

[capnjuan]

Good luck Cashdog. CJ

 

[chazmo]

Not a contemporary. This one's a very lighly used D50. I'll double check on the "used" or "2nd" stamps or marks on the tag, but I'm pretty sure I already asked about that. Kinda lost track cause I've been looking at so many lately. Unfortunately there all online, as they seem to be kind off scarce in this neck of the woods.

Unless it was stamped USED, I wouldn't have any qualms myself... I played some of those instruments from late 2008 and they were fine.

 

[Bill Ashton]

My Tacoma D55 was a NOS, manufactured in June of 08 if I read the coding correctly. No problems in the past six months that I am aware of...

 

[Bing k]

We received Guilds from Tacoma at the very end of production and saw no decline in the quality.
quote:
If you're asking did the announcement of the move kill QA/QC in Tacoma ... there's probably an argument to be made that QA/QC was a contributing factor in closing Tacoma in the first place. Despite all of this, they are plenty of first-class Tacoma Guilds.

I'm not sure I agree that QC was one of the reasons to move out of Tacoma. I wouldn't have put it on the list at all and we probably handled more guitars from there than most dealers did.
Fender did not own the building. It made sense to move production to a plant that Fender had just acquired. Word I heard from inside was "one of the primary reasons for buying the Tacoma operation in the first place was for the machinery. There were (I believe I was told) six recent CNCs there that came with the deal worth about $750,000 apiece.

We saw few quality concerns from Tacoma at all. In fact the guitars from there were better quality instruments than those from G and M we had our hands on through that same time period. The last shipments we received from Tacoma at the end of production there
were top drawer all the way. And we're picky.

 

[Nigel Wickwire]

I'm not sure I agree that QC was one of the reasons to move out of Tacoma.

+1

I have a Tacoma built Guild from 2008 and I find the quality of my instrument to be first rate.

~nw

 

[count savage]

According to the serial number on my new D 50, it was built it Tacoma on January 16 2008 and was the sixth guitar built that day. It's stellar. It sounds terrific and the build quality is impeccable and the wood is simply stunning. In fact, I was LOOKING for a Tacoma built Guild and feel fortunate to have found one.

 

[capnjuan]

... I'm not sure I agree that QC was one of the reasons to move out of Tacoma. I wouldn't have put it on the list at all and we probably handled more guitars from there than most dealers did ... The last shipments we received from Tacoma at the end of production there were top drawer all the way. And we're picky.

Hi Bing: I think it's fair to assume that FMIC left Tacoma because they thought they could make more money elsewhere. In 2008 and 2009, Guild released dozens and dozens of Contemporary CO/CV models and a number of Traditional models ... all without warranty. Said by eBay resellers to have only modest cosmetic problems, these guitars were made in Tacoma and offered at substantial discounts against MAP/MSRP/'List' .... they were, and are, dirt cheap.

I don't know whether these guitars were once sold and then taken back in exchange for blemish-free guitars. Assuming the eBay resellers are telling the truth about the extent of deficiencies ... and it would be in their interests not to ... Guild elected not to repair them at Tacoma or ship them to Nashville for repairs. Instead, they just dumped them ... giving up the better margin (eroded by the cost of repair) it could have earned on a defect-free guitar for getting out from under the warranty and possibly a modest write-up depending on whether they treat Warranty as a contingent liability on their books.

As best I can tell, every warranted guitar released from Tacoma was/is a hgh-grade, front-line Guild .... I also don't know how many crappy guitars were made but destroyed in Westerly. But having hundreds of unsold / unsellable guitars ... however you wish to express it ... would have eroded profits at Tacoma and unavoidably figured in any 'more profits elsewhere' decision by FMIC whether FMIC mgmt ever pointed directly to QA/QC or not. Further, if QA/QC was a factor, FMIC isn't going to come out and say it was. Since the goal of the undertaking is to make money, then making fewer crappy guitars - regardless of where they are made - would improve profits.

I'm not saying Tacomas are bad guitars; I'm saying that in the short time they were there, FMIC/Guild made a lot of guitars they later refused to warrant. Not to rag too much here but any chance those new CNC machines will improve quality? :wink:

Respectfully, CJ

 

[chazmo]

Call me crazy, but I'm sensing some very interesting questions for LMG Q&A!

I suspect that, like most important corporate decisions, there were many factors at work that brought Guild USA to New Hartford last year. Clearly when Fender purchased KMC the opportunity presented itself. That said, it would be good to know exactly what factors were weighed (and why), but the important point here is that a factory-warranted Tacoma-era Guild is a great guitar by pretty much any measure. The only quality defects I've heard about over the years were some early issues with lacquer peel and I think there were some instances of neck problems with the (warranted) Contemporaries.

The whole business of what happened with the fairly substantial sell-off of reclaimed Contemporaries (USED) and their ubiquitous neck problems at the end of Tacoma is a pretty ugly mark on Guild, IMO. I don't know why there were so many of these -- of course, it speaks to having *good* QA that these weren't sold as "new." You have to offset your thoughts about reclamation with the other way that Fender approached the shut down of Westerly -- which was trashing a lot of good stuff. We know from fellow members how painful that was to Westerly's employees and how deep their enmity runs to this day... All I can say is that at least with the reclaimed guitars you have a low price-entry for consumers at the possible expense of future work (and certainly at the expense of the brand image for the faithful, like us). Tough call when you're running a big company.

 

[capnjuan]

Call me crazy ... The whole business of what happened with the fairly substantial sell-off of reclaimed Contemporaries (USED) and their ubiquitous neck problems at the end of Tacoma is a pretty ugly mark on Guild, IMO. ... and a costly one. All I can say is that at least with the reclaimed guitars .... you mean 'reclaimed' by the resellers ... Tough call when you're running a big company.

Hi Crazy; agree ... it's a business and if they don't have to, they won't voluntarily man up to QA/QC issues ... like a certain Japanese car manufacturer ...

Hope your LMG event works out; of course I'd want to know all the reasons they left Tacoma but to be honest, I'd take any answer: 'enhanced product' ... 'get back to our roots' ... 'synergy with existing line of business' as Spam Spam Spam Spam :wink:
John

 

[chazmo]

Indeed, CJ.

"Reclaimed" is, I think, the word they use to describe guitars that are voided of their manufacturer warrantee and are routed through a "reclamation" center before being sold. I assume these are sold at steep discount by the manufacturer to the reclamation facility. One example I'm familiar with that I believe Tacoma routed guitars through (though I don't know if it was exclusive) is MIRC: http://mircweb.com/quality.php

 

[capnjuan]

Hi Chaz; I see ... you're thinking maybe a 'reclamation' center bought all those Tacoma guitars in bulk ... touched them up ... and they - not Guild - sold them off to eBay re-sellers. As far as Tacoma is concerned, it had to be something substantial to make them decide We gotta get out of this place ... (Rickenbacker content) J

 

[chazmo]

Hi Chaz; I see ... you're thinking maybe a 'reclamation' center bought all those Tacoma guitars in bulk ... touched them up ... and they - not Guild - sold them off to eBay re-sellers. As far as Tacoma is concerned, it had to be something substantial to make them decide We gotta get out of this place ... (Rickenbacker content) J

I wish I could watch your youtube links at work, CJ. I'll have to catch 'em later...

Actually, I am not positive how MIRC (and maybe others) got their hands on the Tacoma rejects, CJ, but I assumed that they were sold to them directly by Fender and not acquired through dumpster diving or something... When I looked into this a few years ago, it was a fact that some of the eBay sellers were getting Tacoma Guilds through MIRC, but I don't know if that's where that large surge of Contemporaries last year came from... Maybe the same.

By the way, I don't think New Hartford is releasing any factory seconds. I don't know if that was a change in corporate policy or simply a difference in culture in the transition.

 

[capnjuan]

... By the way, I don't think New Hartford is releasing any factory seconds. I don't know if that was a change in corporate policy or simply a difference in culture in the transition.

Dont' know either ... I just wish they'd respect the brand as much as we do ... :evil: :wink:

 

[Bing k]

Hey, good input from everyone, great discussion.