1974 Guild F50R - Identification

[BostonTerrapin]

I've been a long time Guild supporter and enthusiast since I was a kid and my beloved vintage D40 was sadly stolen from me a few years back. I've been actively looking for a new Guild ever since -there's just something about the Guild sound/feel that I cant seem to find in any other make.

Anyway, I've been looking at a 1974 F50R that a local musician is selling in my area. I have not been able to play it yet but was hoping you kind folks might have some feedback on the identification and potential lifetime value of this beautiful thing!

-The only modification I've noticed is a zero fret (I don't know if that was installed at the factory or added later on?).
-The bridge seems to be in tact and according to the seller it is not lifting.
-Action seems to look ok based on the photos but I'm not sure if there may have been a neck reset at some point. (Based on these photos, should I be concerned with the action?)
-Grain looks ok. I'm not sure if it has the original finish.
-I noticed that there is no serial # on the back of the headstock (Is this common?)
-The Grover tuners look silver. My understanding is that they typically came with gold. (Have they likely been replaced?)
-I don't see any visible cracks.
-The seller is asking for $2,300.

Is this Guild in good shape? Does it appear to warrant any repairs? Is the seller asking a fair price?
Any additional insight or feedback would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Ethan

 

[chazmo]

I have some thoughts...

First of all, welcome aboard!

The F-50R is my favorite Guild 6-string model. You'll never miss your D-40 again after owning one of these. Just my opinion, of course.

That zero-fret is a first for me on a Guild. As you indicated, it didn't come from that factory that way. But, I'm wondering why it was added. That's not a bad modification at all, just not something I'd do.

I think the lack of a serial number on the back of the headstock probably indicates that the neck at least was refinished. Again, the question is why? It could be the lighting in the picture, but the binding around the front of the headstock looks very white compared to the rest of the guitar. If that's so, it could be a sign that there was some binding repair and that may be why any refinishing was done.

I can't really tell from the side view of the bridge but it looks like it might've been thinned out a bit. Not sure. But that could also be a sign that neck repair may be needed.

All in all, what I think we're looking at is a well cared for guitar that may have seen some (partial) refinishing over the years and appears to have been done well.

Anyway, I'll bet that whether I'm right or not you'll really enjoy this guitar. The price feels a little high to me, but not terribly so.

 

[GAD]

Moved to Acoustics

 

[wileypickett]

The D40 and F50 are very different beasts. Dreadnaught vs jumbo; maple vs mahogany; non braced archback vs braced flat back, etc.

Best thing is of course to play it and see how it sounds to your ears.

 

[Brad Little]

Plus one on Chazmo, seems a bit high to me, too, but not very much so. I'd offer $2000 and see what response there was.

 

[Cougar]

Action seems to look ok based on the photos but I'm not sure if there may have been a neck reset at some point. (Based on these photos, should I be concerned with the action?)

Anyway, I'll bet that whether I'm right or not you'll really enjoy this guitar. The price feels a little high to me, but not terribly so.

Well a neck reset in the past is better than a neck reset in the future.

Welcome to the boards!

Of course you will really enjoy an F50R, as @chazmo says. I'm just not certain about this one. Action is pretty central to your enjoyment, and I can't really tell from the photos. There is adequate saddle, but if it has to be lowered to get better action, then it won't be as adequate. And I don't like that zero fret thing. My own preference is for somewhat newer guitars -- my 20-year-old 2002 JF30-12 is still in great shape. You're looking at a 50 year-old guitar! I know some guys love that old wood and the tone from vintage Guilds; I just see the potential for repairs.

Anyway, I definitely recommend F50R. If you don't get this one, you ought to stay in the hunt.

 

[Prince of Darkness]

That zero-fret is a first for me on a Guild. As you indicated, it didn't come from that factory that way. But, I'm wondering why it was added. That's not a bad modification at all, just not something I'd do.

Pretty sure that zero-fret is a reversible mod. Looks like a Zero Glide replacement nut, which includes the fret in it's construction.

Zero Glide Replacement Nut System

A bone nut with a built in zero fret available for all stringed instruments. With no alteration to your instrument you can hear better tone, intonation, and clarity.

goldtonemusicgroup.com

 

[SFIV1967]

Looks like a Zero Glide replacement nut

Yes, that is what it is.
Ralf

 

[SFIV1967]

Could very well had a neck reset in the past and during that time the neck was refinished. Probably the lacquer was worn though or flaked off over time and the musician wanted a good neck again. Not a big deal I think. The label inside tells you the serial number anyway.
Same for the tuners, not everybody likes gold, he probably wanted chrome. I you want gold you probably find somebody to trade a set.
Oh, and welcome to LTG!
Ralf

 

[F30]

Welcome and from the pics it looks like a great guitar. Nice top grain too.

 

[kostask]

I have some warning signs going offL

1. I understand that necks get refinished. Whether it be from being scraped up by a capo, or somebody's body chemistry reacting with the nitro finish, there are times when necks need to be refinished. I don't understand why the numbers on the back of a headstock would disappear while doing that. The numbers are incised into the headstock fairly deeply, and sanding off the finish should not have made them disappear.

2. I realize I am looking at pictures and that the lighting plays a factor, but the neck appears to be finished in black, which is not a common neck colour on F50Rs. It is obvious by the colour difference between the body and the neck in picture 4 of the original posting.

3. Following that, the next picture (#5) of the back of the headstock, the red stripe looks unusually bright, and the tuners are supposed to be gold (they are on my F50R).

My expectation is that the guitar's neck has had substantial rework, to the point that the head stock may have actually been replaced, and the black paint on the neck is being used to cover up the amount of rework that was done. A transparent finish would have shown the extend of the rework done. That is why you don't have numbers on the back of the headstock, why the neck was refinished in black, and why the binding around the head stock is so bright.

 

[Prince of Darkness]

Looking at other images of 1974 F50Rs, the necks are normally very dark, much darker than body wood. Could, just about possibly, be down to the lighting Here are a couple of pictures for comparison.


Serial numbers on the headstocks also can be difficult to see, but it appears to have been almost obliterated on this one! I also suspect that the tuners may have been replaced.

 

[kostask]

I can only see what I see, on my monitor, which probably has a different calibration than everybody else's. However, what I am seeing in pictures #4, and #5 posted by Boston Terrapin show a neck colour that is substantially less transparent than the pictures generously posted by Prince of Darkness, that the center red stripe appears to be painted on in the Boston Terrapin pictures, and that indeed the tuners have been changed or are otherwise not original to an F50R. To me, it is very much a "proceed with caution" sort of process which is to be followed. And, for the record, I don't recall any F50R of this era with a factory original neck being shipped without a serial number on the back of the headstock. I'm sure I will be proven wrong, with Guild being consistent in its inconsistencies, but I still see a lot of red flags on Boston Terrapin's guitar, going by pictures alone. I can easily believe that Prince of Darkness' pictures are of a factory original headstock and guitar. I have trouble believing that Boston Terrapin's pictures of a very dark toned headstock, with missing numbers, and a very bright center stripe (can lighting that makes the back of the headstock to be very dark, and and simultaneously make the center strip very bright?), are of a factory neck, or at least one that hasn't been extensively reworked.

 

[BostonTerrapin]

Hi All -

I want to thank you for your feedback and insight here! This group has a tremendous amount of knowledge and I've taken all of it into consideration when evaluating this guitar. After playing and inspecting this F50R at length, I've identified a few things:

-The headstock does in fact have a serial number on the back of it that matches the serial number found in the guitar (the lighting in the picture is not great).
-The neck and back of headstock do appear to have a darker finish than some of the photos I've seen (not as dark in real life as the photos I had posted). This probably indicates that the neck was, at some point, refinished or that the guitar had been designed like that from the start (as Guild is quite consistent in its inconsistencies) and had just been taken very good care of. I don't believe there had been any damages to the neck or that the neck had been replaced at any point.
-The binding on the guitar, including around the front of the headstock, appears to all be original and in good shape (the light in the picture plays tricks here again).
-My understanding is that the tuners may have been changed as some point.
-The action is in good shape and I don't feel that a neck reset is necessary.
-The bridge is in tact and is not lifting.
-There are no cracks or scratches.
-There is no indication that there have been any damages or repairs.

Overall, this Guild feels and sounds great! I was very impressed with it's condition and sound. The previous owner and I had come to an agreement and I'm happy to say that I am now a proud owner of a F50R! Thanks for the warm welcome and I look forward to staying active in the group.

Cheers!
-BT

 

[chazmo]

Hi All -

I want to thank you for your feedback and insight here! This group has a tremendous amount of knowledge and I've taken all of it into consideration when evaluating this guitar. After playing and inspecting this F50R at length, I've identified a few things:

-The headstock does in fact have a serial number on the back of it that matches the serial number found in the guitar (the lighting in the picture is not great).
-The neck and back of headstock do appear to have a darker finish than some of the photos I've seen (not as dark in real life as the photos I had posted). This probably indicates that the neck was, at some point, refinished or that the guitar had been designed like that from the start (as Guild is quite consistent in its inconsistencies) and had just been taken very good care of. I don't believe there had been any damages to the neck or that the neck had been replaced at any point.
-The binding on the guitar, including around the front of the headstock, appears to all be original and in good shape (the light in the picture plays tricks here again).
-My understanding is that the tuners may have been changed as some point.
-The action is in good shape and I don't feel that a neck reset is necessary.
-The bridge is in tact and is not lifting.
-There are no cracks or scratches.
-There is no indication that there have been any damages or repairs.

Overall, this Guild feels and sounds great! I was very impressed with it's condition and sound. The previous owner and I had come to an agreement and I'm happy to say that I am now a proud owner of a F50R! Thanks for the warm welcome and I look forward to staying active in the group.

Cheers!
-BT

Outstanding. You went in with eyes open and that's all anyone can ask/expect.

We want a full spread of that guitar when you get it and clean it up. I think you're going to be very happy. An F-50R is a wonderful, wonderful thing to have and to hold.

 

[chazmo]

Oh, by the way, if you want me/us to check the serial number for the date, please let's have it.

 

[BostonTerrapin]

Oh, by the way, if you want me/us to check the serial number for the date, please let's have it.

Ha!! Thanks, I'll definitely provide a full spread for ya'll soon. I believe it's a 74.
Serial#: 110699

 

[chazmo]

Yup, 1974, BT!

 

[BostonTerrapin]

Hi All -

I want to thank you for your feedback and insight here! This group has a tremendous amount of knowledge and I've taken all of it into consideration when evaluating this guitar. After playing and inspecting this F50R at length, I've identified a few things:

-The headstock does in fact have a serial number on the back of it that matches the serial number found in the guitar (the lighting in the picture is not great).
-The neck and back of headstock do appear to have a darker finish than some of the photos I've seen (not as dark in real life as the photos I had posted). This probably indicates that the neck was, at some point, refinished or that the guitar had been designed like that from the start (as Guild is quite consistent in its inconsistencies) and had just been taken very good care of. I don't believe there had been any damages to the neck or that the neck had been replaced at any point.
-The binding on the guitar, including around the front of the headstock, appears to all be original and in good shape (the light in the picture plays tricks here again).
-My understanding is that the tuners may have been changed as some point.
-The action is in good shape and I don't feel that a neck reset is necessary.
-The bridge is in tact and is not lifting.
-There are no cracks or scratches.
-There is no indication that there have been any damages or repairs.

Overall, this Guild feels and sounds great! I was very impressed with it's condition and sound. The previous owner and I had come to an agreement and I'm happy to say that I am now a proud owner of a F50R! Thanks for the warm welcome and I look forward to staying active in the group.

Cheers!
-BT

Just realized that I totally forgot to follow up with the additional images since acquiring this beautiful Guild.

Since picking this up, the guitar has performed beautifully. It’s got stronggg volume & bass giving it loud, rich, overall tone. The neck is surprisingly easy to play and the action is solid with no unusual buzzes - even with different gauge strings. Not to mention, it’s stunning design!

Long story short, the preservation and overall tone of this instrument is remarkable. Once again, thanks for all of your feedback and insight!

-BT