Any fan-fretted 12-strings ??

[chazmo]

I was just looking closely at the pictures of awagner's Turner Renaissance 12-string and one of the pictures almost looks like the guitar is fan-fretted. It's just an illusion due to the angle of awagner's picture, but it got me wondering... Does such a thing exist? Acoustic or electric for that matter.

Has anyone seen or commissioned a fan-fretted 12-string? I know most of the usual brands don't do fanned frets, but I don't think I've ever seen one and I was curious. I've never actually played a fan-fret, but it does seem like a worthy innovation. And, actually, on a 12-string it seems to make even more sense (in my head, anyway). Anything to make a 12-string as easy to play as it should be!

 

[Christopher Cozad]

The "fan" fret modification to a guitar lengthens the scale for the higher tension strings. Lower frequencies resonate more sweetly on longer scale lengths. The idea is to use the shorter scale length(s) for the thinner strings and the longer scale length(s) for the thicker strings. Because a 12 string typically pairs 8 of its 12 strings with strings having disparate tension, one starts to work against oneself when trying to incorporate a fan fret design. It isn't impossible, just not as practical.

 

[Christopher Cozad]

Fan frets, fan bracing...

and here's a facebook link for 12 String Guitar fans:

12 String Guitar Fans | Facebook

A place for 12 string guitar players to share anything 12 string related. Simple rules here...don't be a DB and thank a Vet. Cheers.

www.facebook.com

 

[beecee]

Love the rules

 

[fronobulax]

@krysh has a fan-fretted instrument, I believe.

@Christopher Cozad makes sense to me when suggesting a fan fretted 12 would be difficult to implement because of the differences in string diameter and tension.

 

[chazmo]

I think that early Ovation 12 strings used a pattern like this

Merlin, yeah, what Christopher said... I was referring to a fan-fret design, not the bracing pattern. That one you show though is really wild. Does that guitar top sound good??

 

[chazmo]

The "fan" fret modification to a guitar lengthens the scale for the higher tension strings. Lower frequencies resonate more sweetly on longer scale lengths. The idea is to use the shorter scale length(s) for the thinner strings and the longer scale length(s) for the thicker strings. Because a 12 string typically pairs 8 of its 12 strings with strings having disparate tension, one starts to work against oneself when trying to incorporate a fan fret design. It isn't impossible, just not as practical.

Makes total sense, Chris... Thanks for the observation! It doesn't make much sense for a 12-er, does it?

 

[merlin6666]

Merlin, yeah, what Christopher said... I was referring to a fan-fret design, not the bracing pattern. That one you show though is really wild. Does that guitar top sound good??

Ah thanks for clarification. I have only seen pictures of fan frets and they like looked scary to me.

 

[Aristera]

I believe wileypickett (Glenn Jones) recorded with a fan fretted 6 string on his last CD.

 

[Heath]

I was just gonna say… paging Glenn…

 

[krysh]

here you go:

Custom Guitars | Gordon Giltrap's Fanfret 12-string | Fylde Guitars

www.fyldeguitars.com

and yes, I have a fanned fret 5-String Custom LeFay ROB RHT:

 

[wileypickett]

I can't recall ever seeing any fan-fret 12-strings.

I have a couple Lowden six-string fan frets that I quite like. Nothing scary about them -- I thought I'd have to adjust, but if you close your eyes they feel like what you're used to -- assuming you're used to regular fretted six-strings.

Ergonomically, they are a little easier to play, though that's not why I got interested in them.

 

[chazmo]

I can't recall ever seeing any fan-fret 12-strings.

I have a couple Lowden six-string fan frets that I quite like. Nothing scary about them -- I thought I'd have to adjust, but if you close your eyes they feel like what you're used to -- assumung you're used to regular fretted six-strings.

Ergonomically, they are a little easier to play, though that's not why I got interested in them.

It's the ergonomics that made me wonder whether this was a reasonable idea for a 12-string, Glenn. But, after reading Christopher's reply above, I guess the scale-length wouldn't achieve its purpose on the octave courses of a 12-er.

 

[Nuuska]

Question : which plays bigger role on 12-string :

- better sound of main strings - how much better?
- worse sound of octave strings - how much worse?

Naturally perfect selection of individual string gauge is assumed.

Are there any comparable guitars available? w/wo fan-frets on same model w at least 100 or more made - rather 1000 or more ?

I can see the convenience of fretting hand - because there is the natural arc w elbow as pivot point - other than that . . . ? ? ?

 

[wileypickett]

I can see the convenience of fretting hand - because there is the natural arc w elbow as pivot point - other than that . . . ? ? ?

(I'm only responding to your last question Nuuska, because the others are just way over my head!)

The reason I was interested is kind of boring to explain, but I'll give it a shot:

The longer strings on the bass side of a fan-fret mean you can tune the bass strings lower than on your average six-string without the strings becoming too "floppy" or losing power.

This interested me because I play only in open tunings (I've invented about 100 or so) and being able to tune lower on the bass end meant I could come up with new tunings, ones with a greater spread between the low E and high E strings. (Because, you know, 100 tunings aren't enough!)

It's a little like having a long scale guitar (or a baritone) and a regular guitar combined.

I don't like having to mix string sets. I can easily tune the low E (on a standard set of D'Addario EJ17s) all the way down to A on fan-fret guitars with no discernible loss of volume, while also maintaining a feel that's comfortable for me.

I like the Guild G41 (thanks Richard!) for the same reason. It's an oversized dread and the longer scale length means you can tune it way low too. But since the high end is the same scale length, the B and E strings can be pretty tight, and -- depending on the tuning -- that sometimes affects the feel.

I didn't jump into fan-frets without some cynicism myself. ("Do we really need another goofy newfangled thing!?") So I first bought an inexpensive used Agile brand six-string acoustic fan-fret. After playing around with it for a few months, I knew I liked the concept enough to start beating the bushes for a used Lowden fan-fret, one of the few high-end makers to offer them.

Before the pandemic Lowdens weren't crazy expensive. Now, though, its hard to find ANY Lowden, new or used, fan-fret or not, for under four grand, and some are three times that price or more. I bought mine at just the right time apparently.

The ergonomic factors, which are often the selling point of these guitars, turned out to be a plus, but, like I say, that's not what drew my interest initially.

(BTW -- I still have the Agile "starter" fan-fret and it's for sale if anyone is curious.)