Compensated saddles?

[Iceman]

Does anybody know why Guild puts compensated saddles on some models and not
others?
My F 50 R and my DV 72 are non-compensated saddles.
My D 50 and my custom shop F 30R LS are B string compensated.
I seems that non-compensated saddles are on the higher end guitars.

 

[adorshki]

Does anybody know why Guild puts compensated saddles on some models and not
others?

Guilds already had a rep for excellent intonation so a compensated saddle adds cost that may not be needed for the majority of models.

My F 50 R and my DV 72 are non-compensated saddles.
My D 50 and my custom shop F 30R LS are B string compensated.
I seems that non-compensated saddles are on the higher end guitars.

Initially Guild only rarely compensated saddles on flattops, starting with the F45ce in the mid-80's AFAIK. They also used exceptionally wide saddles on all other "Fxxce" models as it aids compensation with UST's.

They started installing compensated saddles as standard in Tacoma in '05. So your DV72 for sure and I bet your F50R as well are pre-Tacoma, while your D50 is an '05 or later, assuming the saddle's original.

The F30R-LS was a late '90's Custom Shop model, as such and especially being a long scale, it may have received a compensated saddle as the Valencia, Deco and Finesse models, even though it's not mentioned on the catalog page:

 

[Iceman]

Thanks much for the explanation!

 

[Iceman]

It does make since with the year made as I had a
1967 D 40 with a non-compensated saddle.
The saddle was also extra long.
Thx again!

 

[GAD]

Moved

 

[plaidseason]

Guilds already had a rep for excellent intonation so a compensated saddle adds cost that may not be needed for the majority of models.

Initially Guild only rarely compensated saddles on flattops, starting with the F45ce in the mid-80's AFAIK. They also used exceptionally wide saddles on all other "Fxxce" models as it aids compensation with UST's.

They started installing compensated saddles as standard in Tacoma in '05. So your DV72 for sure and I bet your F50R as well are pre-Tacoma, while your D50 is an '05 or later, assuming the saddle's original.

The F30R-LS was a late '90's Custom Shop model, as such and especially being a long scale, it may have received a compensated saddle as the Valencia, Deco and Finesse models, even though it's not mentioned on the catalog page:

I've seen two F30r-ls examples and both came with a compensated saddles.

 

[chazmo]

MOstly it depends on the year it was built, Charlie.

 

[adorshki]

It does make since with the year made as I had a
1967 D 40 with a non-compensated saddle.
The saddle was also extra long.
Thx again!

In '67 they were transitioning from the "through saddle" (sits in a slot that's open at each end) :

to the "drop-in" saddle which sits in a routed-out "socket":

 

[chazmo]

And, just to add to that, I don't think any of Guild's through-saddles were compensated, though I have seen compensated through-saddles made, generally after widening the slot. I don't know when Guild started compensating their drop-in saddles but I doubt it was before the 1980s. Not sure at all on that.

 

[Rocky]

Worth mentioning that compensation on an acoustic instrument is a little less important as the string length changes ever so slightly as the top vibrates. Note definition is a little fuzzier than it is on, say a solidbody instrument.

 

[Iceman]

Great info, Thx!
I don't recall ever seeing a compensated saddle on a classical guitar.
Maybe because the strings are bigger.

 

[Rocky]

Great info, Thx!
I don't recall ever seeing a compensated saddle on a classical guitar.
Maybe because the strings are bigger.

Haven't thought about this in depth, but classical tension is much lower than a steel string. As a result you really need to bend a string a lot to get to the next semitone. This may have something to do with it as well.

 

[adorshki]

Great info, Thx!
I don't recall ever seeing a compensated saddle on a classical guitar.
Maybe because the strings are bigger.

@Rocky 's got it: shorter scale length and lower string tension, so not really needed.
Believe I've seen a very high-end flamenco with compensated saddle though, and they have higher tension.

 

[Christopher Cozad]

A "compensated" saddle is defined in more than one way:

1. Moving the larger diameter strings back, further away from the nut, than their theoretical scale length position would dictate, resulting in a straight saddle that is not perfectly perpendicular to the path of the strings. On a 6 string guitar, this results in the 1st string being the closest to the nut and the 6th string being the farthest away (the saddle is "angled").
2. Deliberately forming the top (or crest) of the (already angled) saddle to further "compensate" for string diameter (tension) and provide for more accurate intonation, especially as you play up the fretboard. On a 6 string guitar, in addition to this resulting in the 1st string being the closest to the nut and the 6th string being the farthest away, the scale of the 2nd string is lengthened (the crest is moved away from the nut), while the scale length of the 3rd string is shortened. The scale lengths of the 4th and 5th strings are then lengthened, respectively.

I would dare add that intonation in general, being a rather moving target and potentially hot topic, was much less understood decades ago. I would suggest that, much like the path of water, it was easier to stay with established practices (such as a straight saddle tilted back at an angle). This was (and has been) satisfactory for many, many players, especially those who rarely venture into the upper frets.

 

[Iceman]

Thanks for all the info, it has been enlightening!