fix/replace under saddle pickup in GAD-30E?

[davidp158]

The under-saddle pickup on my GAD-30 doesn't have balanced string to string volume. The high E string is approximately 10dB lower than most strings. The low E is about 5dB lower than most strings. I've cleaned all surfaces that the pickup comes in contact with, and there are no apparent high or low spots that could cause volume issues. There is a bit of side to side free space, so I've tried a few different positions, but with no apparent improvement.

I bought the guitar used, so I presume the pickup is the Fishman Matrix Natural 1 model. Its passive, and sounds OK, but not great. EQ tweaks don't help, as the problem is simply lack of output under certain strings. I'm wondering if there is anything I should try to balance out the string response. If not, I would like to find a good replacement pickup that will fit into the saddle slot without modification to the saddle slot or nut height. I'd prefer to do the install myself, if possible.

BTW, I tried a Baggs M1 active pickup. It has fine string balance and better output before feedback, but the tone is too "electric" for my taste. I've heard good tones from under-saddle or magnetic pickups combined with a condenser mic, so these are options I'm interested in. Unfortunately, modifying the Baggs M1 to work with an under-saddle pickup is a major hassle. First I'd like to fix or replace the current under-saddle bridge, and go from there.

Although the GAD-30 is an inexpensive guitar, I actually like it "unplugged" quite a bit. The small body is more comfortable than a dreadnought, and less prone to excessively boomy bass. I'm hoping to get a good pickup system so I can use this at gigs.

Thanks in advance for any advice!
Dave

 

[pbhales]

there are a number of issues that arise with undersaddle pickups, and yours is typical. For some time I had a Schertler Bluestick in my Guild 12 and periodically would encounter this problem. I know you've tried smoothing out the saddle and perhaps also the bridge slot, but that's usually the culprit; often it's caused by restringing-- with undersaddles that are successfully balanced, it's imperative that you change strings one at a time rather than removing all.

Things to try. First, literally try muscle-- not enough to break the top!, but press firmly with your thumbs on the nut and try to wiggle it in the slot while strings are at tension. This has the effect of forcing contact of nut to pickup sensor. Try loosening and tightening strings-- you're already out of balance and you've obviously taken the sensor out of the slot, so you have little to lose.

If after all the shenanigans you get EXACTLY the same phenom-- i.e. always the same string, always the same amount of dropout, most probably the piezo sensor itself has cracked, broken, or lost its full-length sensitivity. This is not uncommon. I currently use Acoustric Matrix undersaddles in a number of my performing axes, as I run them through a Fishman Aura with programs to replicate the original instrument. I hate the sound of these "dead", i.e. w/o eq., which is quacky and unmusical. But with a good box, and I love the Aura, esp. the newer and simpler one, they are quite long-lasting. I would recommend simply buying a new one and putting it in. It will almost certainly fix the problem, and then you can save your pennies for the Aura!

 

[kostask]

I am hoping when you are saying "nut" in the above posting, you really mean saddle.

There are only a few things that I can suggest. First is to make sure that the saddle bottom is absolutely flat. Any deviation from perfectly flat will create the string to string imbalance you are seeing. The same goes with the saddle slot. The floor of the slot must be perfecly flat as well, and the edges of the floor must be perpendicular and as square as you can get them. This may require routing the bridge slot out, making the smallest of cuts, with an end cutting mill. The other thing is that the saddle must be a fairly tight fit with the slot; not tight enough that it must be forced into the slot (which would probably interfere with the string pressure being transmitted to the pickup element (sensor)), but tight enough that the saddle must be vertical in the slot (no leaning backward or forward). If all of that is correct, maybe you do have a broken pickup element, and need to have it replaced.

Kostas

 

[chicagowineguy]

Good advise so far, but you might want to just have your tech professionally install a K & K Mini. And saddle issues should be resolved during the installation, and you'll hear A LOT of glowing endorsements of the K & K. Personally I think it provides the most natural-sounding amplification for a very reasonable price.

 

[davidp158]

Thanks to all for the prompt replies!

pbhales - Thanks for your suggestions, as it appears that you've tackled this same issue before. BTW, I agree that under saddle pickups are quacky and unmusical. They can sound fairly good with soft fingerstyle playing, but I find they are too brash/abrasive sounding with heavy picking.
Q: Does the Fishman Aura system do a good job of eliminating the "quack", and respond well to picking dynamics? I've wanted to audition one of these.

kostask - Yes, I meant bridge saddle when I wrote nut. My bad! The overall condition of the saddle slot and saddle look clean and square, but I imagine even the slightest deviations will cause problems. The piezo is not snug with the slot, however. I recall it having a fair amount of space on both sides, which may be causing uneven contact/string pressure. The Fishman web site indicates they offer piezo pickups in two widths, and this is probably the narrower version.

chicagowineguy - I have heard good things about the K & K contact pickups from an upright bassist, and a mandolin player. I see they make both under saddle and contact style pickups. I will look into these.

Thanks again for the helpful replies.

 

[cjd-player]

+1 on the K&K mini.

Great sounding pickup. Much, much better than an undersaddle to my ears.

 

[kostask]

Thanks to all for the prompt replies!

pbhales - Thanks for your suggestions, as it appears that you've tackled this same issue before. BTW, I agree that under saddle pickups are quacky and unmusical. They can sound fairly good with soft fingerstyle playing, but I find they are too brash/abrasive sounding with heavy picking.
Q: Does the Fishman Aura system do a good job of eliminating the "quack", and respond well to picking dynamics? I've wanted to audition one of these.

kostask - Yes, I meant bridge saddle when I wrote nut. My bad! The overall condition of the saddle slot and saddle look clean and square, but I imagine even the slightest deviations will cause problems. The piezo is not snug with the slot, however. I recall it having a fair amount of space on both sides, which may be causing uneven contact/string pressure. The Fishman web site indicates they offer piezo pickups in two widths, and this is probably the narrower version.

chicagowineguy - I have heard good things about the K & K contact pickups from an upright bassist, and a mandolin player. I see they make both under saddle and contact style pickups. I will look into these.

Thanks again for the helpful replies.

The Fishman Aura does eliminate piezo quack, as does the DTAR Mama Bear. The Aura is great if it has the correct sound images for your guitar in their library. The DTAR Mama Bear sounds really good too, without the dependence on the sound images (it doesn't use them). The Mama Bear is also able to provide some versatility, as it can emulate other guitars, like a tri-cone resonator, archtop, and others.

Kostas

 

[davidp158]

I haven't heard either the Aura or DTAR systems in person, but from the few videos I've seen/heard, the DTAR sounds more natural than the Aura. At 100% "wet" settings, the Aura seems to produce nasty digital artifacts that remind me of early guitar amp modeling devices. The variety of options on the Aura are appealing, but a good, natural tone is my priority. BTW, I should mention that I play mostly with a pick. I think pickup systems are most problematic with a pick, and more forgiving with finger style playing.

Has anyone tried either the Aura or DTAR systems with a magnetic pickup? I presume a well set up piezo or contact pickup would work best, but I'm curious to know if anyone's made a comparison.

Of course, I wouldn't expect any device to turn my budget GAD-30 into a high end instrument, but I'd love to find something that will tame the horrid piezo quack. I first need to sort out my funky under saddle bridge.

 

[kostask]

Neither the Mama Bear nor the Fishman Aura sound good at 100% effect (wet). Both of them start to show artifacts at about 80-85%, with the exception of Mama Bear's resonator setting, which sounds best at 100%. For most players, on the Mama Bear, 40-60% wet sounds good, and is dependant on the pickup, guitar, and expected sound. The Aura that I have heard was on a Martin D-28 (Martin factory pickup) and sounded pretty good, perhaps a little more accurate than the Mama Bear in that the actual character of the guitar seemed to come through a little better. Both sounded far more than acceptable, and neither had any sign of quack.

I have heard Mama Bear with an electric pickup. It does sound a lot less like an electric with the Mama Bear than it does alone, but some of the electric character does still come through. For an occasional gig, it would be fine; if you are gigging all the time, a UST type pickup and one of the acoustic processor boxes would be better.

Kostas

 

[Taylor Martin Guild]

Are you sure that you have a passive pick up?
Most are active and the battery is in a bag inside the body of the guitar.