Guild, 1971 Truss Rod

[MikeGlosta]

I've played this guitar, D25 mahogany all around, since buying it at Boston Music, Boylston St. Boston, 1971.
If you know this guitar, I don't have to tell you what a gem it is.
The neck has a sag halfway along, roughly frets 5-12. I've tried tightening the rod nut but can't lower the action to what I'm used to playing.
Any suggestions? Not a very good video - but hope enough to get help
Thanks,
Mike

 

[GardMan]

Does the truss work (change the relief of the neck)? What is the relief? Measure with a capo on the 1st fret, and then use your finger to fret where the neck meets the body (14th fret). at the 7-8th fret, there should be a SLIGHT gap between the string and the fret... 0.006-0.012". For scale, a typical light gauge high e is 0.012". If the relief is already in that range, you will need to lower the action by lowering the saddle... easiest to sand from the bottom... to lower the action by 1/64th", you need to remove 1/32" from the bottom of the saddle.

 

[adorshki]

I've played this guitar, D25 mahogany all around, since buying it at Boston Music, Boylston St. Boston, 1971.
If you know this guitar, I don't have to tell you what a gem it is.
The neck has a sag halfway along, roughly frets 5-12. I've tried tightening the rod nut but can't lower the action to what I'm used to playing.
Any suggestions? Not a very good video - but hope enough to get help
Thanks,
Mike

HI MIke Welcome aboard! Love to hear from original owners.
Sadly from the one ic I supct you may finally be due for a neck re-set. The neck may have finally been pulled out of ideal alignment by 50+ years of string tension.

Before you panic, though, one way to check that for yourself is detailed here:
http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Musician/Guitar/Setup/NeckAngle/neckangle.html

Let us know if you'd like more info. I suspect a guitar like yours may actually be "worth" the expense these days, if not simply "worth it" according to the owner's rating. Lot to be said for a guitar you've loved for 50 years.

 

[davismanLV]

While the truss rod adjustment can have an effect on the action height, it's primarily there to dictate neck relief, NOT action height. If you want the action height lower, you need to lower the saddle. You don't mention the saddle at all and if it's full height then you use this formula; for the amount you want to lower the action at the 12th fret, you must take double that amount off the bottom of the saddle. If the saddle is already as low as it can go, then you're in neck reset territory.

Show a photo of the saddle height.

 

[MikeGlosta]

Does the truss work (change the relief of the neck)? What is the relief? Measure with a capo on the 1st fret, and then use your finger to fret where the neck meets the body (14th fret). at the 7-8th fret, there should be a SLIGHT gap between the string and the fret... 0.006-0.012". For scale, a typical light gauge high e is 0.012". If the relief is already in that range, you will need to lower the action by lowering the saddle... easiest to sand from the bottom... to lower the action by 1/64th", you need to remove 1/32" from the bottom of the saddle.

Thanks for the suggestion. The relief is already in the range. I might try another saddle before sanding what's already on the guitar. There isn't a lot to work with.

 

[MikeGlosta]

HI MIke Welcome aboard! Love to hear from original owners.
Sadly from the one ic I supct you may finally be due for a neck re-set. The neck may have finally been pulled out of ideal alignment by 50+ years of string tension.

Before you panic, though, one way to check that for yourself is detailed here:
http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Musician/Guitar/Setup/NeckAngle/neckangle.html

Let us know if you'd like more info. I suspect a guitar like yours may actually be "worth" the expense these days, if not simply "worth it" according to the owner's rating. Lot to be said for a guitar you've loved for 50 years.

I've played by Guild's suggestion: Made to be Played, which in all likelihood when judged by appearance, actually may look 75 years old.

 

[adorshki]

I've played by Guild's suggestion: Made to be Played, which in all likelihood when judged by appearance, actually may look 75 years old.

Wasn't thinking of condition so much as quality of materials, although, yeah, condition helps.

 

[MikeGlosta]

HI MIke Welcome aboard! Love to hear from original owners.
Sadly from the one ic I supct you may finally be due for a neck re-set. The neck may have finally been pulled out of ideal alignment by 50+ years of string tension.

Before you panic, though, one way to check that for yourself is detailed here:
http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Musician/Guitar/Setup/NeckAngle/neckangle.html

Let us know if you'd like more info. I suspect a guitar like yours may actually be "worth" the expense these days, if not simply "worth it" according to the owner's rating. Lot to be said for a guitar you've loved for 50 years.

After following the guide on the link I suspect the string should be lowered by a "strong" 1/16. There isn't a lot of play-room with the saddle so I guess now is the time to consider a neck set

 

[adorshki]

After following the guide on the link I suspect the string should be lowered by a "strong" 1/16. There isn't a lot of play-room with the saddle so I guess now is the time to consider a neck set

We can be sure your bridge hasn't been shaved which is a good thing. Original geometry can be restored without replacing it.
One of our members, Fixit, has a stellar rep here for outstanding quality of work and reasonable pricing, and he even worked at Westerly in late '70's or early '80's, I forget..and I have no connection.
He's in Florida:
http://www.jacobscustomguitars.com/

Although I myself have reservations about shipping, haven't heard of anybody having a problem so far.
Or if you've already got "a guy", then at least that part of puzzle's solved.

1/16 is 4/64 which is how Guild spec'd action when they did publish it: ideal was 5.5-6/64th on bass E 12th fret, and 4.5-5/64ths on treble E.

Good luck, let us know how it goes!

 

[Br1ck]

If you don't thoroughly understand how truss rods work, and what they do and don't do, don't touch it. Have your guitar evaluated by a luthier. You may have just reached the 250,000 mile mark and need an engine rebuild. I'd say you've gotten your money's worth.

 

[GardMan]

If you DO decide to ship it to Tom Jacobs (fixit)... talk to him about getting a pre-printed shipping label. I think he gets a price break on shipping...

 

[kostask]

If the neck relief is good, then you have a geometry problem. Normal neck relief is around .008". If you turn the truss rod, and the relief changes, then the truss rod is doing its work. If it doesn't change, then you have a truss rod problem. Remember to turn the truss rod 1/4 turn at a time, and with the strings slackened off. It can take a few minutes for the relief to change, so 1/4 turn, then wait, and check neck relief again. If the neck relief does not change, you probably have a broken truss rod, not common, but not unheard of either.

Assuming that the truss rod is OK, then you need to check the neck angle, according to what the previous posters wrote. Since you are the original owner, the bridge should not have been shaved, which is great. If the neck angle is off (straight edge hits the front of the bridge, or even the guitar top), then you need a neck reset. If it comes to the top of the bridge, or very slightly below (say, 1/32) you can delay the neck reset. I know opinions will vary, but I am adamantly opposed to shaving bridges; some are not and see it as a viable way of delaying a neck reset. If a bridge is shaved, and then the saddle is also shaved to reduce action, there will not be any way of restoring the guitar's original geometry, as well as increasing the possibility that the bridge will split. On the other hand, if you have a lot of saddle exposed, you can try to lower the saddle. Keep in mind that lowering the saddle has the effect of altering (actually, reducing) the string break angle, which affects the amount of downward pressure on the top, and can affect both tone and volume. This will vary in degree (tone) and amount (volume) depending on the guitar. If you need a neck reset, then do a neck reset, is my general approach.