Guild D25M Finish - What is it? Can it be restored?

[jcorlando]

I have a '78 Guild D25M. It has a couple "dents" on the front, belt rash on the back,
and on the side facing the floor a minor chip. It still looks great after a good cleaning.

I'm wondering, what type of finish is on this guitar?
I read it was a "nitro" but I don't know what that means?

Could it be refinished much like a shellac or a french polish??
Could I take some 300 grit sand paper, sand the whole thing and refinish it?

Thoughts???

John in Annapolis
-------------------------------------------
Guild D-25M 1978
Hiroshi Tamura P80 1982, signed

 

[guildzilla]

Nitro indicates the finish coats are nitrocellulose. Since it still looks great, I'd let it be.

 

[devellis]

I'd strongly recommend against sanding and refinishing. This will substantially reduce the value of the instrument and putting on a good finish is no simple undertaking. People expect s bit of wear on an older instrument; they do not expect it to be refinished, especially by someone like you or me who haven't done it professionally for some time. There's a good chance that your efforts would not only look worse than it looks now but would also inhibit tone. A well applied finish is extraordinarily thin and it takes professional equipment and lots of experience to get it right. Multiple coats are applied over a sealer, sanded down, more coats applied, sanded down, etc. The final coat is both sanded and buffed. I've seen guitar shops do this. The spraying is done in a sealed, dust free spray booth with fairly elaborate ventilation. The sanding is mostly done by hand with the buffing done on a professional-grade buffing wheel, using buffing compounds suitable to the finish material. I do a fair bit of repair work on my own instruments and I wouldn't dream of attempting a refinish.

It might be possible to do some touch-up but getting that to look good on nitrocellulose, I am told, is pretty darn tough. On the other hand, botching a touch-up and making it look a lot worse is remarkably easy.

Guitars develop character as they age. Learn to love the few little scuffs it may have, would be my suggestion.

 

[jcorlando]

It's frustrating. I got this guitar in High School and didn't value it like I do now.
I just want to put it in as good condition as possible.

John In Annapolis.

 

[taabru45]

It's frustrating. I got this guitar in High School and didn't value it like I do now.
I just want to put it in as good condition as possible.

John In Annapolis.

Stick with a new nut saddle, ebony or horn pins new striings, a good carnuba wax...close your eyes feel the sheen on the wood, play one strung at a time...then a chord, then open your eyes, and look at it with all its memories, and how its always been there for you, and maybe you'll like it as it is..not all facelifts come out well :wink: Steffan

 

[jcorlando]

Will do.. I've got the get the neck removed and refretted, new bone nut and saddle.
So it's going to get a lot of work anyways. - But is sounds great and it's mine.

John

 

[taabru45]

At a boy John, I could use a new back myself, but new teeth is making a world of difference, and others appreciate it too.... :lol: :lol: I took both my 77 F50 and 90 F512 into having them checked out...the F50 was...the saddle could come up a little bit on the high e...bring it in when you change strings and i'll do it for you while you wait....light strings over 34 years, no other work required, amazing...The F512 has the bridge lifting a little, he'll reglue it and make some adjustments, to stay away from a neck set...we'll see, said about $200 would do it....so this is what happens when you don't challenge your Guilds too much....I like it....and I love the guild voices.... Steffan

 

[southernGuild]

All great advice given above.....I couldnt agree more, and am glad to hear that you will be taking it aboard........all the other work is going to reward you with a beautiful sounding instrument, with which you share much history....and a long future too! Good stuff! SG :wink:

 

[Dr. Spivey]

Shooting lacquer isn't difficult at all. I consider myself a lousy painter, but I've done 2 electric guitars, 5 motorcycles, 3 bicycles, a pickup truck, 2 pairs of speakers and a variety of small items, all with lacquer. You don't need any special equipment whatsoever other than a respirator. Wet down the floor to control dust, a couple window fans and a little ingenuity make a ventilation system. Hot rodders and other DIY types have done it for generations. All the sanding and buffing can be done by hand, and in many cases that is preferable to a machine, for example on skinny bicycle tubes.

Guitars, in a production environment, are finished the way they are because they want to do the job with a coat or two, with a minimum of time spent sanding and buffing. You do want to keep the finish relatively thin on a guitar, but you can apply 20 coats, as long as you sand them out properly. The beauty of lacquer is you can sand out your mistakes, and hand rubbing can produce a better shine than any machine.

These guys http://www.grizzly.com/catalog/2010/main/1 sell a variety of decent finishing materials for guitars, an instructional video and even a brush on lacquer for guitars. I would think Stew Mac, LMI and others do as well. It's not too tough to finish a guitar or anything else with lacquer, but it does take time, effort and patience.

 

[devellis]

Doc, I defer to your greater experience and stand corrected.

 

[killdeer43]

These guys http://www.grizzly.com/catalog/2010/main/1 sell a variety of decent finishing materials for guitars, an instructional video and even a brush on lacquer for guitars. I would think Stew Mac, LMI and others do as well. It's not too tough to finish a guitar or anything else with lacquer, but it does take time, effort and patience.

The Grizzly headquarters complex is right down the road from me and I've been into the showroom a bunch of times to look at all the misc. parts they have for making your own guitars and other musical instruments.
My son-in-law bought one of their guitar kits and I'll see if I can grab a few photos when he's finished with it.

It's a pretty neat side line for a company that makes fine woodworking tools. :wink:

Joe

 

[Dr. Spivey]

Doc, I defer to your greater experience and stand corrected.

I wouldn't say you are wrong, Bob just looking at it from a different angle. Machine finishing is a skill that takes a deft touch and time to learn. I buff out metal often at work and home with wheels, but I can destroy a coat (or many) of lacquer in a heartbeat. I've used machines to finish lacquer, but I go real slow and easy. Same with spray guns, a pro can get it done in 2 or three coats, amateurs tend to put on more, lighter coats and do more sanding. I see a lot of guitars that in my opinion have way too much lacquer on them. I think those heavily lacquered guitars have more of a tendency to check, and do so sooner.

I've been told by 2 custom automotive painters, and several fine woodworkers, that the majority of luthiers and guitar repair people really don't know much about lacquer, just enough to get by. It makes sense if you think about it. Cars and furniture get more use and abuse than guitars and live in a harsher environment.

The Grizzly headquarters complex is right down the road from me and I've been into the showroom a bunch of times to look at all the misc. parts they have for making your own guitars and other musical instruments.
My son-in-law bought one of their guitar kits and I'll see if I can grab a few photos when he's finished with it.

It's a pretty neat side line for a company that makes fine woodworking tools. :wink:

Joe

Grizzly is a strange outfit. I lived for a few years in Springfield MO, where they have a large distribution center and showroom. I'm not much of a woodworker, but I've been a metal fabricator all my life. The quality of their metalworking stuff is pretty low, but now and then there is a winner. I hear mostly good things about their woodworking tools, other than the real cheap ones.

I guess the owner/founder is into guitars. I'd be interested to see photos of your son-in-laws kit. I played one that was built by a guy who worked there, it was pretty nice, but he had built two others and hand picked the parts for the third.

 

[jcorlando]

Just wanted to thank you all for the comments and insight.
I really did not appreciate the instruments as works of art when I was younger.
Guess Pete Townsend smashing and burning his guitar on stage did help.

Seeing the commandery here, and the love of the instrument
has only deepened my appreciation.

John

 

[Guest]

It's frustrating. I got this guitar in High School and didn't value it like I do now.
I just want to put it in as good condition as possible.

John In Annapolis.

Stick with a new nut saddle, ebony or horn pins new striings, a good carnuba wax...close your eyes feel the sheen on the wood, play one strung at a time...then a chord, then open your eyes, and look at it with all its memories, and how its always been there for you, and maybe you'll like it as it is..not all facelifts come out well :wink: Steffan

Well Said!

 

[crank]

I'm in the same boat with my G37. I put a couple of painfully obvious, huge dings in the top from walking around the house with it and bumping into things. I also have a couple of cracks in the finish from leaving it in the car one cold winter night. I love this guitar and would love to have the top refinished. However, at 30-years old it sounds so effing good and I don't want to do anything to mess with that.

 

[killdeer43]

I was totally crushed with what I did to my D50 in a previously mentioned, single-digit, dead-of-winter "Weed, CA Incident."
My first thought was to have the top redone, but wiser heads and buget combined to keep me from doing it, and she stills sings/rings as good as ever....maybe better than ever!

My D50 has character and a good, albeit sad story to share when discussing the perils of weather extremes and how they affect our guitars. You could say that it serves as an educational visual aid! :wink:

Cheers,
Joe