Guild JF-55 - weird specs - expert advice needed

[Uncle Dims]

Hello Guild community,

I've just received a beautiful JF-55 (I believe Westerly-made) and noticed some irreguIarities which I overlooked when ordering it.
Firstly, I have to say that it looks, feels and sounds like a genuine Guild, just what you expect from this model. But few things are weird here:
1) The neck is 1-piece instead of 3-piece - not like I feel bad about it, but I failed to find a single 55 that has this simplified design.
2) There is no stamp on the back of the headstock - I think saw it on few 55s before but again, it's not common
3) Truss rod construction is different, with the cavity going all the way down to the nut. Truss rod cover is being held by three screws, truss rod nut is Allen.
4) There is no Guild stamp on the back bracing inside the body
5) Serial numbers are 2 weird stamps inside, S/N is AF/JF 550302 which corresponds to 1996 (right after Fender acquired Guild)
Please see the photos attached.

My best guess is either it was something experimental from one of Guild transitional periods (which I could easily imagine), or just some missteps being made in production. What are your thoughts? Again, the fact of skilful fake is doubtful - I've never seen a single counterfeit JF-55/F50R, let alone the fake of this quality.

Thanks in advance for your help - I'm pretty familiar with acoustic guitar market but this one really left me puzzled.

Sincerely, Dmitry

 

[wileypickett]

Wow -- you're right to be suspicious Dmitry!

I've never seen any Guild end-block stamped in this manner. End-blocks are often stamped with the model number, but not with the serial number (which is reserved for the paper label). And I've never seen one stamped "Made in the USA."

I can't recall seeing a Guild truss rod cover (at least on any acoustic I can think of) with three screw holes, nor have I seen the TR cavity carved out in such a manner.

The label looks like it was photocopied, and the fact that there's no stamp on the back of the headstock or on the center strip inside is, to put it kindly, atypical.

Also, the Japanese-made Grover copies don't look like any I've ever seen on a Guild.

I suspect this is a fake.

 

[chazmo]

Hello Dmitry.

Well, the one piece neck is very odd... as are the odd stamps on the neck block... as is the fact that there is not a serial number stamp on the back of the headstock. I'm not really sure what to make of this. Perhaps this guitar was rebuilt at some point?

The body of the guitar looks right to me. No obvious inconsistencies to make me believe it's counterfeit... I was trying to compare the grain from the inside rosewood to the outside, and it looks like it might be solid wood (which it should be) rather than laminate.... I can't see well enough at the soundhole cut to tell if the top is solid spruce or not (which it should be).

Anyway, this one's a head scratcher.

 

[BradHK]

The truss rod looks to have an Allen (hex) fitting rather than a 1/4” nut. Is that correct or is that just an optical illusion in the photo? I am not an expert on Guilds from this timeframe but I would expect a nut for a USA built guitar from this era. That larger route at the truss rod cover area is also what I see on guitars that are routed for a hex adjustable truss rod.

 

[Aristera]

Also, the neck block s/n and label s/n have transposed first two characters. Pay close attention to the head stock inlays. The Guild letters are wider than normal and the G-shield's internal and external part look to be different widths. The plain (vs abalone) rosette puts it as an earlier model.

 

[Uncle Dims]

Thanks for your feedback guys! Yeah the top is solid Sitka and back/sides are solid Indian Rosewood, both of a decent quality - I owned hundreds and seen thousands of acoustic/classical guitars, so I guess I can tell from experience. Fretboard is definitely ebony, the markers are beautifully done. The whole thing, with all that lacquer on etc., feels very real and like it's about 30 years old, you would never tell it's a counterfeit. Mahogany neck is also great. If it's a skilful fake, then I refuse to understand why not copying the whole thing in full and do these sloppy stamps/labels. Crafting a hi-end guitar requires a lot more skill then putting a neat label inside. I could only understand the neck, since you will probably need some special tools for pressing it together. As for the tuners, many folks do replace them so i doesn't tell you much, unless there was only one model used by Guild with the different layout. I'm super puzzled. Just put it against my Martin D-28 and tell me tell you, D-28 was not a winner in this comparision. Weird indeed!

 

[chazmo]

Just put it against my Martin D-28 and tell me tell you, D-28 was not a winner in this comparision. Weird indeed!

I'm a huge fan of the F-50R / JF-55. But, just understand that we're puzzled too. There are a lot of red flags regarding the originality of that neck, Dmitry. None of these should have one-piece necks. At least, I don't think we've ever heard of that.

The body of the guitar, as I said, looks right to me. But all due respect, telling laminate from solid is not as simple as just relying on experience. If this guitar is legit, the entire body will be made of solid wood. If you pull the endpin and take a very close look you should be able to prove whether the sides are solid or laminate. Inner and outer grain on the back can be matched with a laminate and not tell you the whole story. As for the soundboard, the sound hole is the easiest tell for solid vs. laminate top... If the grain of the wood follows the cut at the soundhole all the way around, then you can tell if it's solid.

Anyway, it's a puzzler for sure.

 

[Uncle Dims]

Yes, there is definitely something wrong about this piece, in terms of authencity. I did the closer look on the inside and saw some sloppy woodwork on the scalopped braces which I would not expect on a high-end Guild.. but at the same time, it's nothing like cheap Martin and Taylor copies which most of you have seen out there. The woods look still solid to me (or least solid spruce/double plate for back&sides). Probably just a good copy indeed. My bad, should've been more focused when buying online. Doesn't make it a worthless guitar though! If anyone has other ideas, please contribute. Thanks a lot, Dmitry

 

[davismanLV]

Also, note that the abalone V's in the MOP blocks seem too wide at the top? Look at the first fret. I've never seen them look like this. And I've never seen them with these colors on a Guild. Could this guitar have had a new neck put on that someone tried to make seem like a Guild neck?? Just thinking out loud. What a mystery.

 

[adorshki]

My best guess is either it was something experimental from one of Guild transitional periods (which I could easily imagine), or just some missteps being made in production. What are your thoughts? Again, the fact of skilful fake is doubtful - I've never seen a single counterfeit JF-55/F50R, let alone the fake of this quality.

Thanks in advance for your help - I'm pretty familiar with acoustic guitar market but this one really left me puzzled.

Sincerely, Dmitry

Agreed, about a production "anomaly", especially due to the detail of the neck inlays and the headstock faceplate/binding. It looks like factory work to me and that's usually one of the "Failure" details.

My memory's fuzzy on this but for sure @hansmoust has detailed some unusual "details" on the early JF55's during the transition, and model numbering issues as well, IRC? Something like a "JF50R" was seen, I think?

And seem to recall a member who'd had an unusually shallow bodied JF55 from the first run? He was looking to replace it and was very sure about that build detail on his example which he'd sold. What's the body depth on yours?

Also I believe it's possible that's from earlier than '96, or maybe the body is. There should be a date stamp on the neck block, treble side beveled edge was the usual location, that's when the "rim" was completed (if I remember the correct term, but the stage before top and neck (and back?) are installed. So actual completion ranged from a couple of weeks to a couple of months later depending on a few factors.

Hope Hans will be able to shed some light on this!

 

[hansmoust]

Hello Uncle Dims,

Welcome! I hate to bring bad news, but as some posters already suggested, there are quite a few things 'not correct' with this guitar.
I don't think we're looking at a legitimate Guild.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl

 

[PreacherBob]

Zooming in on the label, you can tell it was cut out with scissors, the edges are uneven. However, it’s a fabulous looking guitar and I’m sure it sounds awesome. It’s the best of both worlds, Id put a pickup in and gig the crap out of it and not be concerned about getting play wear and dings. I’ve got some guitars that aren’t doing me any good because I’m reluctant to play out with them. I find most patrons are not really concerned with the brand or even the authenticity of what I’m playing. And I love me some Jumbos.

 

[Uncle Dims]

Thanks a lot guys! My best bet would be either save it for gigs/rehearsals, like @PreacherBob suggested, or to trade it for something authentic with cash on top. Don't feel good about putting the price tag on it, since I got literally no idea what it might cost. My estimate would be 1200-1500$, with used "no-issues" JF-55 price tag being about 3000$ in Europe.

 

[awagner]

Can't you return it and get a refund if it was represented to be an authentic Guild?

 

[chazmo]

Good luck whatever you do, Dmitry. Just because it's a fake doesn't make it bad... If you like it, use it and enjoy it!

As awagner asked, can you return it?

 

[Uncle Dims]

I don't think so, since I bought it in Japan online and all the pictures were right before my very eyes. No one else to blame but poor myself
On a positive note, I was happy to discover such a vivid Guild online community. And the forum itself is made very well, will definitely stick around!

 

[chazmo]

Good luck, Dmitry!