Guild names and numbers

[BobsterMan]

I can't believe it, but I have a serious post here...

What I don't get is the system (or am I incorrect to assume that there is one?) in the names/numbers/models/series of the flat-tops, in particular.

Oh yeah... some are easy... C for cutaway, E for electronic, D for Dread, L for Left handed, NT means No Tone... or is that a Fender acoustic designation?

But what makes it a 40 or a 44? Is it only the amount of inlay or gold plate that gets you a bigger number? Does the GSR F-40 actually have gun shot residue on it? Have I been watching too much CSI?

If you know of a link that helps here, I would appreciate the info. Pure conjecture will never be rejected. He who is veerless can never be fearless...

 

[chazmo]

So, Bob, seriously, which part of your serious question was serious? As for the GSR designation, I was (seriously) wondering about that too.

As for the non-serious part... The 44 is the one that makes you say "do you feel lucky, punk?" I've always wanted one that makes me say that.

 

[JimbowF212]

Guys maybe this link will help? But, remember this only applies to Westerly made Guilds. I have no Idea where you can find info on the rest.

http://westerlyguildguitars.com/index.htm

 

[jte]

There isn't much of a system. A means an acoustic arc-top, X, means an electric arch-top, D means a dreadnaught, F means not a dreadnaught, except for those where things are different...

Like an F-20 is different from an F-50. And a D-40 doesn't share all that much with an F-40 does it? There was never much consistency which just makes things more confusing.

Buy Hans' book and use it for a reference.

John

 

[hansmoust]

Buy Hans' book and use it for a reference. John

Thanks John,

That would be my advice as well. I tried to explain most of it on page 48 and even though it applies to the 1952-1977 period, for the most part it also applies to the period that came after that.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

 

[kostask]

I will make a small attempt, but will probably come up short, so others will correct me I am sure.

Prefixes:
F= 00/000/OM/Mini-Jumbo/Jumbo Shape, and slim acoustic electrics in later years.
D= Dreadnought shape (Martin Square Shoulder type)
G= Special variations
GF-Gruhn Era guitars
JF= 12 String Jumbos, same shape as the F
J= Jumbo
DV- Dreadnought Vintage series, same shape as D series
JV=Jumbo Vintage, same shape as F/J series.
A = OM sized (only 2 models)
CO/CV/CD=Contemporary Series.

Suffix:
NT=Natural (no color added to finish)
SB= Sunburst
AB=Antique Burst
C= Cutaway, Cherry finish
BL= Black or Blonde?
E= Electric or Electronics (has a pickup)

The C suffix can have different meanings on different models. A D40C is a D40 with a cutaway, but a D25C is a D25 with a Cherry (Red) finish.

All Dreads, with a few exceptions, are close to the same size. The F series 6 strings has different sizes, the F20 being the smallest, the F50 being the largest. Woods in the F series vary all over the place, sometimes you have guitars like the F47 (mahogany), F47M (maple) and F47R, all F47 size and shape, but with variaions in the back and side woods. You also get variations in models being applied. The all mahogany dread was originally called the D25, which went through a variety of changes, including change to a spruce top, arching of the back, and a variety of trim changes. But you also have all mahogany dreads that came later under the D15, D16 and D17 models. There are also some "slim" acoustic electrics, like the F65, which are slim guitars intended for stage use.

In the 12 string F series, the F112 and F212 are roughly OM sized 12 strings, with Mahogany back and sides, trim differences, the F312 is also OM sized, but of Rosewood
back and sides. The F212XL, F412, and F512 are full sized (17" lower bout) 12 sting Jumbos. The F212XL is Mahogany back and sides, the F412 is arched Maple back and sides, and the F512 is rosewood back and sides. The F612 is the super Jumbo (18" lower bout) rosewood 12 String (extremely rare). The F412 and the F512 were renamed to JF65 and JF55 for a few years.

The DV and JV series were more descriptive of a "voicing" variation/orientation than a shape. Guild seemed to want to re-voice their dreads to compete with Martin's equivalents (Guild DV6 or DV25=Martin D18, Guild DV52/DV72/DV73=Martin D28). I don't know much about the JV series, so you will need to wait for somebody to post on them.

There were two A series guitars, the A25 (Mahogany) and A50 (Rosewood), both OM sized.

The CO, CV, and CD are Contemporary series guitars, the CO and CV (CO with a Cutaway?) are OM sized, the CD is a dread. All of this series used a carbon fiber neck block (which has caused soem issues for some of the posters on this board), and were voiced for a more modern (=fingerpicking/fingerstyle) tone. This series was only made in Tacoma.

Like I said, I have probably left out a lot, and I'm sure other posters will be able to fill in the holes and make the corrections needed. Also, Hans, who is probably THE authority on Guilds will probably be along shortly to set us all straight.

One thing to remember is that Guild is very inconsistent with its model numbers, and has been throughout its history.

Kostas

 

[JimbowF212]

I will make a small attempt, but will probably come up short, so others will correct me I am sure.

Prefixes:
F= 00/000/OM/Mini-Jumbo/Jumbo Shape, and slim acoustic electrics in later years.
D= Dreadnought shape (Martin Square Shoulder type)
G= Special variations
GF-Gruhn Era guitars
JF= 12 String Jumbos, same shape as the F
J= Jumbo
DV- Dreadnought Vintage series, same shape as D series
JV=Jumbo Vintage, same shape as F/J series.
A = OM sized (only 2 models)
CO/CV/CD=Contemporary Series.

Suffix:
NT=Natural (no color added to finish)
SB= Sunburst
AB=Antique Burst
C= Cutaway, Cherry finish
BL= Black or Blonde?
E= Electric or Electronics (has a pickup)

The C suffix can have different meanings on different models. A D40C is a D40 with a cutaway, but a D25C is a D25 with a Cherry (Red) finish.

All Dreads, with a few exceptions, are close to the same size. The F series 6 strings has different sizes, the F20 being the smallest, the F50 being the largest. Woods in the F series vary all over the place, sometimes you have guitars like the F47 (mahogany), F47M (maple) and F47R, all F47 size and shape, but with variaions in the back and side woods. You also get variations in models being applied. The all mahogany dread was originally called the D25, which went through a variety of changes, including change to a spruce top, arching of the back, and a variety of trim changes. But you also have all mahogany dreads that came later under the D15, D16 and D17 models. There are also some "slim" acoustic electrics, like the F65, which are slim guitars intended for stage use.

In the 12 string F series, the F112 and F212 are roughly OM sized 12 strings, with Mahogany back and sides, trim differences, the F312 is also OM sized, but of Rosewood
back and sides. The F212XL, F412, and F512 are full sized (17" lower bout) 12 sting Jumbos. The F212XL is Mahogany back and sides, the F412 is arched Maple back and sides, and the F512 is rosewood back and sides. The F612 is the super Jumbo (18" lower bout) rosewood 12 String (extremely rare). The F412 and the F512 were renamed to JF65 and JF55 for a few years.

The DV and JV series were more descriptive of a "voicing" variation/orientation than a shape. Guild seemed to want to re-voice their dreads to compete with Martin's equivalents (Guild DV6 or DV25=Martin D18, Guild DV52/DV72/DV73=Martin D28). I don't know much about the JV series, so you will need to wait for somebody to post on them.

There were two A series guitars, the A25 (Mahogany) and A50 (Rosewood), both OM sized.

The CO, CV, and CD are Contemporary series guitars, the CO and CV (CO with a Cutaway?) are OM sized, the CD is a dread. All of this series used a carbon fiber neck block (which has caused soem issues for some of the posters on this board), and were voiced for a more modern (=fingerpicking/fingerstyle) tone. This series was only made in Tacoma.

Like I said, I have probably left out a lot, and I'm sure other posters will be able to fill in the holes and make the corrections needed. Also, Hans, who is probably THE authority on Guilds will probably be along shortly to set us all straight.

One thing to remember is that Guild is very inconsistent with its model numbers, and has been throughout its history.

Kostas

I agree with these exceptions:
F- Folk this needs to be added to the rest
GF-Grand Folk, I think I saw this somewhere. Grand concert series for other brands.
JF- Jumbo Folk

 

[chazmo]

Kostas, that's pretty good, but it really shows how complicated this is because of all the exceptions to most "rules." I'll make another plug for Hans' book for details up to the late '70s.

After that, until Hans publishes vol 2., there's an interesting chapter in Gruhn's vintage guitar guide, and that's a helpful book as well. The Gruhn book talks about how all the renaming took place in the '80s and how he (at least) thought it made more sense... in any case, it's a nightmare. You might do searches here on LTG to find info on individual models that aren't covered in Hans' book. Many (most?) of the GF, JF, DV... models have been discussed at one point or another here.

Oh, one inaccuracy... The JF designation is not for 12-strings, though. Those were designated with a -12 in the name. The JF-55, -65, and -100 models were 6 strings (unless they had -12 in the name).

Jimbo... GF is "grand folk"? That's a new one on me (not that I'm denying it). I just figure it was another Gruhn-era change or new Gruhn-era model.

 

[fungusyoung]

GF-Grand Folk, I think I saw this somewhere. Grand concert series for other brands.

If there is any difference between the size of these and a jumbo, its VERY minimal.

I'd love to see a GF30 next to a JF30 because I don't think there's much difference.

 

[hansmoust]

If there is any difference between the size of these and a jumbo, its VERY minimal.

Hello fungusyoung,

The GF-30 is 16" wide across the lower bout whereas a JF-30 would be 17" across the lower bout. In guitar measurements that's quite a difference. In 'general' guitar language the GF-30 would be called a 'small jumbo' and the JF-30 would be called a 'jumbo'. In 'Gibson' language that would be the size of a J-185 ( or an Everly Brothers Model) compared to the size of a J-200.

I'd love to see a GF30 next to a JF30 because I don't think there's much difference.

A GF-30 is pretty much the size of the F-47 from the '70s. If you take a look at the small photo on page 122 of 'The Guild Guitar Book' , you will see how an F-47 compares to an F-50R. That's exactly how a GF-30 would compare to a JF-30. Obviously the depths of the bodies would be different as well.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl

 

[fungusyoung]

Thank you, Hans.

It has been quite a while since I've held my beloved JF30-12 (it now resides with Chazmo), but the GF30 didn't seem too far off from that... though my memory gets hazier by the day! The depth of the GF30, in particular, feels the same or close to it (again going by one madman's typically flawed recollections). When I think "mini jumbo", I immediately think of my F112, which feels lots smaller than the GF30, though now I'm gonna take a look at them side by side later on.

 

[jte]

And to absolutely accurate, "A" means not only the A-50 and A-25 flat-tops that were introduced in 1995, but was also used for the acoustic arch-tops that started in the '50s.

It's kinda complicated...

John