Have we seen this Custom 7 before?
- Thread starter GGJaguar
- Start date
SFIV1967
Venerated Member
Yes, that's the one which is in Russia for a long time now. Serial number on the headstock is DA 237, whereas on the Hoboken label it is DB 237.
According to Hans that is the real prototype made by Carlo Greco for the Custom 7 / Starfire VII.
Here are all so far (to me) known Custom 7 deep Starfires:
The 1969 made "7"s:
The 1972 made ones:
The amber colored ones are really "orange" and not red as they appear here in the second row. See Hans book page 101 for instance and the picture in the first row from Hans which Guild posted with wrong info...
Now you already will notice a few visual differences between the 1969 to the 1972 runs:
The 1969 ones have the little humbuckers, the pickup switch on the bass side and no railroad stripes on the fretboard.
The 1972 run has already HB-1 humbuckers, the pickup switch relocated to the treble side, a relocated MV-knob, Müller bridges with wooden base and railroad stripes on the fretboard.
But there are other differences in construction as well!
Top row from left to right, oldest to youngest of the 1969 made ones:
a) DA237/DB237 (S/N on headstock and label different): The real prototype, label shows: "Starfire VII BL SPEC", "Artist Award Model" on headstock and "Mark VII" on TRC.
DB237 would have been be a Starfire VI serial number from 1966 and DA237 a X500 serial number from 1969.
Hans had this guitar in his hands, so he knows her well. She was sold on ebay in 2004 and later 2008 and went for well over $ 6,500 to a dealer/collector in Philadelphia. Somehow she ended up with a Russian collector, now offered in Moscow/Russia, currently at US$ 7,500. http://vgrbaza.ru/#/jazz/43
Also mind that Hans mentioned that the given story and the numbers in that Russian ad are not correct. Also the case is not the OHSC anymore.
b) S/N 101 (not sure which prefix): Amber color. This and all the following are called Custom 7 on the headstock. This one has a wooden archtop bridge. It is the guitar in Hans book and Hans already corrected the other info in his book in previous posts. Currently located in The Netherlands.
c) S/N unknown to me. It's a Custom 7. Hans knew the guitar but we only "found" her thanks to this post in Oct 2021. Hans said the guitar has "a laminated maple top, just like the prototype, it's different from most of the other later ones."
What I don't know yet is if she was built even before S/N 101 or after... And can't see what bridge she has.
But maybe those are the only three from 1969.
Second row from left to right, oldest to youngest of the 1972 made ones:
d) I left that place blank above, mainly because Hans said in an old discussion, the following two, 66160 and 66161, were number 5 and 6 he knew of. That could mean there is a 4th that I don't know. I simply might have misunderstood what Hans meant about #5 and #6, I thought the order of serial numbers.
e) S/N 66160: The guitar was owned by a LTG member in MA and offered for sale in Manchester, NH in 2018, see the video below.
Now that 66160 is different in construction, more like a Starfire IV with center block but still different as it's not a full center block: "The guitar top is strengthened and solidified with a 5" wide 3/4" thick block of wood...looks like mahogany. Runs from the tailpiece to the neck joint. And a 1/2" thick block is also added to the back of the guitar".
The 1969 info in below sales video is obviously not correct.
f) S/N 66161: Just one serial number apart, but in Amber. Owned by a LTG member in the LA area since he bought her new at Anderson Music in Michigan in 1972! Probably the only one owner one! That one does not have such a two piece centerblock like 66160.
g) S/N 66323: 1972 Custom 7 (Blond), HB-1s, big collector in Paris/France (guitar was restored by French luthier Michel Scamps in Chavenay)
The older link is dead but I left it here for a reason. "https://www.guitarmotel.com/#/guitar/guild-1969-starfire-vii-blonde"
Update Oct 2021: Now for sale in UK and also with very wrong info given, the store in Denmark Street has no idea about the history of that guitar:
https://reverb.com/item/45888679-guild-starfire-custom-7-prototype-rare-1969-natural
Update 4/23: 66323 now lives in Cleveland.
In discussions with the owners of 66160 and 66161 Hans also talked about "The others"! He said: "The others: They are probably from the same batch but they are about 150 numbers away from your guitars, which means they were not all finished at the same time."
That youngest S/N 66323 matches the distance of "about 150 numbers", but that also means there are more, otherwise Hans would have not said "The others"! So maybe there is one or more in the lower 660xx range as well.
Anyway, as of October 2021 we found those 6 in pictures so far. But it sounds there are still one or more hidden somewhere! So the story will continue...
And Carlo Greco had mentioned he remembered one he made with white binding, which non of the above have.
Well, maybe Carlo was talking about a "Deep Starfire V" or "Starfire V XD" which had white binding! Otherwise those had a normal Guild shape headstock with Chesterfield and Chrome hardware.
Here is what Hans had to say about the below one with S/N 63637 (also 1972): https://letstalkguild.com/ltg/index.php?threads/starfire-v-xd.189686/post-1731186
All Custom "7" really show this design on the Artist Award style headstock vs. the "Artist Award Model" inlay on the prototype:
And just for those who do not know, that's what I mean with "railroad stripes" on the fretboard left and right:
Ralf
According to Hans that is the real prototype made by Carlo Greco for the Custom 7 / Starfire VII.
Here are all so far (to me) known Custom 7 deep Starfires:
The 1969 made "7"s:
The 1972 made ones:
The amber colored ones are really "orange" and not red as they appear here in the second row. See Hans book page 101 for instance and the picture in the first row from Hans which Guild posted with wrong info...
Now you already will notice a few visual differences between the 1969 to the 1972 runs:
The 1969 ones have the little humbuckers, the pickup switch on the bass side and no railroad stripes on the fretboard.
The 1972 run has already HB-1 humbuckers, the pickup switch relocated to the treble side, a relocated MV-knob, Müller bridges with wooden base and railroad stripes on the fretboard.
But there are other differences in construction as well!
Top row from left to right, oldest to youngest of the 1969 made ones:
a) DA237/DB237 (S/N on headstock and label different): The real prototype, label shows: "Starfire VII BL SPEC", "Artist Award Model" on headstock and "Mark VII" on TRC.
DB237 would have been be a Starfire VI serial number from 1966 and DA237 a X500 serial number from 1969.
Hans had this guitar in his hands, so he knows her well. She was sold on ebay in 2004 and later 2008 and went for well over $ 6,500 to a dealer/collector in Philadelphia. Somehow she ended up with a Russian collector, now offered in Moscow/Russia, currently at US$ 7,500. http://vgrbaza.ru/#/jazz/43
Also mind that Hans mentioned that the given story and the numbers in that Russian ad are not correct. Also the case is not the OHSC anymore.
b) S/N 101 (not sure which prefix): Amber color. This and all the following are called Custom 7 on the headstock. This one has a wooden archtop bridge. It is the guitar in Hans book and Hans already corrected the other info in his book in previous posts. Currently located in The Netherlands.
c) S/N unknown to me. It's a Custom 7. Hans knew the guitar but we only "found" her thanks to this post in Oct 2021. Hans said the guitar has "a laminated maple top, just like the prototype, it's different from most of the other later ones."
What I don't know yet is if she was built even before S/N 101 or after... And can't see what bridge she has.
But maybe those are the only three from 1969.
Second row from left to right, oldest to youngest of the 1972 made ones:
d) I left that place blank above, mainly because Hans said in an old discussion, the following two, 66160 and 66161, were number 5 and 6 he knew of. That could mean there is a 4th that I don't know. I simply might have misunderstood what Hans meant about #5 and #6, I thought the order of serial numbers.
e) S/N 66160: The guitar was owned by a LTG member in MA and offered for sale in Manchester, NH in 2018, see the video below.
Now that 66160 is different in construction, more like a Starfire IV with center block but still different as it's not a full center block: "The guitar top is strengthened and solidified with a 5" wide 3/4" thick block of wood...looks like mahogany. Runs from the tailpiece to the neck joint. And a 1/2" thick block is also added to the back of the guitar".
The 1969 info in below sales video is obviously not correct.
f) S/N 66161: Just one serial number apart, but in Amber. Owned by a LTG member in the LA area since he bought her new at Anderson Music in Michigan in 1972! Probably the only one owner one! That one does not have such a two piece centerblock like 66160.
g) S/N 66323: 1972 Custom 7 (Blond), HB-1s, big collector in Paris/France (guitar was restored by French luthier Michel Scamps in Chavenay)
The older link is dead but I left it here for a reason. "https://www.guitarmotel.com/#/guitar/guild-1969-starfire-vii-blonde"
Update Oct 2021: Now for sale in UK and also with very wrong info given, the store in Denmark Street has no idea about the history of that guitar:
https://reverb.com/item/45888679-guild-starfire-custom-7-prototype-rare-1969-natural
Update 4/23: 66323 now lives in Cleveland.
In discussions with the owners of 66160 and 66161 Hans also talked about "The others"! He said: "The others: They are probably from the same batch but they are about 150 numbers away from your guitars, which means they were not all finished at the same time."
That youngest S/N 66323 matches the distance of "about 150 numbers", but that also means there are more, otherwise Hans would have not said "The others"! So maybe there is one or more in the lower 660xx range as well.
Anyway, as of October 2021 we found those 6 in pictures so far. But it sounds there are still one or more hidden somewhere! So the story will continue...
And Carlo Greco had mentioned he remembered one he made with white binding, which non of the above have.
Well, maybe Carlo was talking about a "Deep Starfire V" or "Starfire V XD" which had white binding! Otherwise those had a normal Guild shape headstock with Chesterfield and Chrome hardware.
Here is what Hans had to say about the below one with S/N 63637 (also 1972): https://letstalkguild.com/ltg/index.php?threads/starfire-v-xd.189686/post-1731186
All Custom "7" really show this design on the Artist Award style headstock vs. the "Artist Award Model" inlay on the prototype:
And just for those who do not know, that's what I mean with "railroad stripes" on the fretboard left and right:
Ralf
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SFIV1967
Venerated Member
Close but not exactly. But maybe it was one of the designs for him.
Ralf
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