M-20 vs. M-120 (Current/New Production)

[mavuser]

Well we all know the 2 big differences, Country of Origin, and Poly vs. non-Poly ?nitro/satin/varnish?
there is also a diffeeence in the truss rod. otherwise, they should be very similar.

but the reason for my post is, if they are both supposed to have solid mahogany tops, why do they look so different?

M-120

M-20

 

[mutantmoose]

Look in the sound holes. The 120 has a bright light shining at a slight diagonal to the guitar, highlighting the grain. You can see the light and the shadow around in in the sound hole. The 20 is lit flat, without any light accentuating it, the light is actually coming downward, the direction that won't enhance the grain.
Both appear to be some kind of "mahogany", although that is just about becoming a meaningless word, IMO. Lots of stuff that was never called mahogany before now has that name, and while it is beautiful, and sounds great, it would be nice if they could actually give the correct name of the wood without the public then ignoring the guitar because it isn't mahogany.

 

[txbumper57]

The American Made M20 looks to have a High grade Mahogany Top from the grain. The Chinese made M120 looks to have the lower grade "Sapele" Mahogany which is cheaper and more plentiful than the Honduran Grade Hog. It is in the same family with "Edinam". The American M20 has very similar grain to the Hog used on the Orpheum series in New Hartford. I remember watching an interview with Ren Ferguson at a Guitar show where he referred to the Orpheums as having Honduran Mahogany. Not saying the American made M20 is Honduran Mahogany but from my eyes it looks like the same grade grain structure.

There are several different woods that are "Considered" part of the Hog Family but aren't actually Hog and Several different grades which all have values from low to high. That is the difference I am seeing here. Once again this is just my opinion on the subject but Ren has been known to state that Honduran Grade Mahogany is one of the Best platforms to start with for a great sounding Acoustic.

TX

 

[AcornHouse]

As has been mentioned, all mahogany is not created equal (or is even mahogany.) Mahogany from Central/South America are completely different species/genus from the African stuff; an is usually considered far superior. It is more stable, and the grain is finer and less crumbly. (If you ever take a chisel to both, you'll see the difference easily.)
Honduran, which is what is used in the M20, I'm sure, is superior to the various African or Asian replicants. Remember, one has grown in a wet, tropical environment, while the others grew in more of an arid landscape. (Of course, the king of hogs is Cuban mahogany, which was overhear vested to make all of those Chippendale pieces a couple of centuries ago.) Khaya, Sapele, and others are what you'll find in imports, for the most part.

 

[The Guilds of Grot]

tx is on it!

Where I work we sell "Mahogany" railing. It is really Sapele. If you look it up, Sapele is not real mahogany although as tx stated, it's considered part of the mahogany family. (And don't get me going about "Tulip-Poplar!!!!!!)

 

[mavuser]

got it, thanks guys. there is also much variation in Guild mahogany grain pattern thoughout the 60s and 70s. the F-20, M-20, S-50 and Starfire basses all show all kinds of grain variation from those time periods. seems in 2016 there are just 2 though.

 

[merlin6666]

I think the Westerly Series are specced as "African Mahogany."

 

[adorshki]

I think the Westerly Series are specced as "African Mahogany."

Yes, while the M20 reissue only says "mahogany".

 

[Quantum Strummer]

I'm not sure how much honduras mahogany there is in the pipeline. From what I've read it seems this wood is headed for Brazilian rosewood status re. availability in the mid if not near term.

-Dave-

 

[adorshki]

I'm not sure how much honduras mahogany there is in the pipeline. From what I've read it seems this wood is headed for Brazilian rosewood status re. availability in the mid if not near term.
-Dave-

We heard that a couple of years ago as well, and that's meant to corroborate your input, I suspect it's inevitable.

 

[Bill Ashton]

http://www.hardwoodtogo.net/mahogany-species-run-down-genuine-mahogany/

http://www.hardwoodtogo.net/african-mahogany-species-overview/

 

[classicrecordings]

The question to my mind is; how do they sound compared to each other?

 

[Quantum Strummer]

http://www.hardwoodtogo.net/mahogany-species-run-down-genuine-mahogany/

This is a more optimistic view than others I've read, but it seems well informed too. Hope it's true.

One of my recent Gibson SGs, a '72, shimmers like crazy when well lit despite its dark-ish brown finish. Very pretty!

-Dave-

 

[adorshki]

The question to my mind is; how do they sound compared to each other?

No snark intended but it wouldn't surprise me if blind hearing tests couldn't really tell the difference.
I suspect it'll have more to do with build quality and top properties than actual species as long as they're close enough in density.
From Bill's link it looks like the South American stuff is in the same kind of situation as Adirondack spruce which was overharvested during WWII but recovered enough to be commercially viable for instrument building again by the '90's.

 

[rmz76]

Because this thread came up in the top 5 results on my "m120 vs m20" Google search and because Guild has changed the m120 spec a bit, I feel this thread needs some updated information. To keep it short I'll add bullet points regarding some changes that invalidate old information above. The original M-120 was part of the "GAD" series. The current incarnation launched in 2015 as part of the "westerly collection"

• There's debate about the species of Mahagony used on the M120, speculation its Sapele not genuine Mahagony. Guild updated their site and now specify "Solid African Mahogany" for top, back and sides. It's speculated the original M120 was Sapele or some Asian species of Mahagony like "Eastern Mahagony" also called "Nato" which is a popular choice for Yamaha and other Asian builders. Today they use African Mahagony on the M120, the same as the M20.
  
  
• The older M120 was Satin finish like the M20, the newer M120 has a polyethene finish
  
  
• Guild was using TUSQ at one point for the nut and saddle on the M120, current models have real bone
  
  
• Older model M120s had a 1 11/16" (1.69") nut width. The current M120 has 1 3/4 (1.75") nut width
  
  
• The older version came with a hard case, they now include a nice gig bag. This might be seen as a downgrade, but it's the only downgrade on the list.
  
  
• The older M120 had a single action truss rod, the current version has a dual action truss rod, like the M20.
  
  
• The overall dimensions of the old M120 and new M120, including overall length, length of upper and lower bout, scale length, neck radius etc... are the same. The nut width is the only big change along with the headstock being more decorative on the westerly collection/newer version of M120. Compared to the USA built M20, the M120 has a slightly longer upper body depth (89mm vs 83mm) and slightly shorter lower body depth (101mm vs 105mm). The M20 and M120 have the same length, but the M20 has a slightly narrower upper body width (260mm vs 257mm on the M20).

The thick poly finish on the M120 is different than the light Satin finish on the M20. The neck radius still different as well. Both are great sounding guitars with the M20 having just a little more in the tone department to my ears, but the M120 is an all-solid wood quality instrument and one of the few all solid wood "parlor" size options from a name brand builder under $1k.

 

[Songwriter99]

I recently created a comparison video an M-20, M-120, M-240e troubadour, and Fender Malibu Classic. I think the video captures the difference I heard between the M-120 and the M-20. The M-20 was a 2022 and M-120 was a 2021. I did look at the bracing of each and there were slight differences. The M-20 had a top plate brace and taller, scalloped sound hole braces. I also thought the neck felt slightly different--the M-120 seemed more D shaped, but I didn't take any measurements.

M-20 = X Brace 1.5” from soundhole, 2 Tone bars, 1 Side Tone bar on each side, Top Plate, 3 -Scalloped soundhole braces
M-120 = X Brace 1.5” from sound hole, 2 Tone bars, 1 Side tone bar each side, No Top Plate, Thicker-than-the-usual-flat sound hole braces (maybe 3/32"tall and 3/8" wide)