Maderia versus GAD

[Nigel Wickwire]

I see Maderia guitars on eBay periodically, I don't think I ever see one go for more than about $250 tops. Some of these are probably decent guitars. I see them in mahogany, rosewood, maple, 6 and 12 strings, but they never bring more than a couple o' hunnert bucks. When was the last year of production for Maderia? Some time in the eighties?

20 or 25 years(?) after they quite making Maderia, they seem to have a hard time attracting anybodies interest on eBay. Will GAD's suffer the same fate?? They've been making those since about 2003 or 2004. The few that I've looked at are top notch quality and materials, they just have the stigma of being an Asian import. Twenty years from now will be in the same boat as Maderia is now?? Or will they be highly sought after as a beautifully crafted guitar?

What say you, LTGers?? Anyone's crystal ball in working order?

~nw

 

[Default]

Can't tell you but I once a/b-ed a jumbo Madeira against an 00-sized Yamaha and the Yamaha won. The Yamaha was nothing special, just a middle line model.

 

[jazzmang]

I think a big differentiator here is the fact that Madeira was still a Madeira at the end of the day.

Guild GADs, even though still imported, have Guild's name behind it.
Name recognition is a HUGE part of resale value and its because of this that I think the GADs will hold their values fairly well with time.

What I wish is that FMIC/Guild would actually alter the Guild logo on all the GADs with an "import" banner underneath it or something.
At first glance, there is not enough differentiation between GADs and USA Guilds.

 

[Nigel Wickwire]

................and the Yamaha won.

Default - I've never seen or played a Maderia. Thanks for the insights. I think there are a few belonging to members here.

Guild GADs, even though still imported, have Guild's name behind it.
Name recognition is a HUGE part of resale value and its because of this that I think the GADs will hold their values fairly well with time.

That is kind of what I was thinking. Maderia, whether deservedly so or not, seem to be real yawners for re-sale.

As far as how the GAD line is marketed, that has been discussed here a few times (I think). Actually Jazzy, that might be a good question for Chazmo's, Let's Meet Guild event. Maybe the folks at New Hartford could shed some light on the marketing decisions behind how the GAD line was handled.

~nw

 

[jazzmang]

... Maybe the folks at New Hartford could shed some light on the marketing decisions behind how the GAD line was handled.

~nw

I would simply guess: Money.

Releasing a Guild import line under an alternate name would have been as big of a flop as Madeira, if not moreso. Might as well release them as Fender Acoustics.

I suspect keeping the Guild name and logo on these imports was one of the only ways to lure customers in. People would have open minds about these Guilds, whereas, in reality, these "Guilds" have nothing more in common with real Guilds than their designs.

Guild stood for quality craftsmanship, which is why I suspect Guild initially started the Madeira line, so that their name would not get tarnished or marred by the quality of these lower-cost imports.

While I'm not attempting to argue that today's GADs aren't good-sounding guitars, I would argue that they are undeserving of the sole Guild name, without some other immediate designation that they are indeed imports which copy Guild designs.

Edit: Sorry for the veer

 

[Dr Izza Plumber]

GADs are built of solid and pretty decent tonewoods, and one piece necks.

Maderias are built with mostly laminates.

 

[Nigel Wickwire]

GADs are built of solid and pretty decent tonewoods, and one piece necks.

Maderias are built with mostly laminates.

Well, thank you Doc. Now we've got some concrete information!

~nw

 

[Dr Izza Plumber]

I don't know about concrete, but the Mads I've looked at appeared to be rosewood veneer over some other wood.

Of course that's vastly superior to some of today's rust stratobond material, or whatever they call that pulpwood.

 

[chazmo]

... Maybe the folks at New Hartford could shed some light on the marketing decisions behind how the GAD line was handled.

~nw

I would simply guess: Money.

Releasing a Guild import line under an alternate name would have been as big of a flop as Madeira, if not moreso. Might as well release them as Fender Acoustics.

I suspect keeping the Guild name and logo on these imports was one of the only ways to lure customers in. People would have open minds about these Guilds, whereas, in reality, these "Guilds" have nothing more in common with real Guilds than their designs.

Guild stood for quality craftsmanship, which is why I suspect Guild initially started the Madeira line, so that their name would not get tarnished or marred by the quality of these lower-cost imports.

While I'm not attempting to argue that today's GADs aren't good-sounding guitars, I would argue that they are undeserving of the sole Guild name, without some other immediate designation that they are indeed imports which copy Guild designs.

Edit: Sorry for the veer

Nigel, I don't think the folks in New Hartford have any direct knowledge or impact on GAD activities. The people "in the know" would be the guys in Scottsdale at Fender HQ. As a matter of fact, we may have someone attending LMG from corporate, so perhaps we should ask (feel free to add to the LMG questions).

I think Jazzy's comment earlier about Guild on the headstock is correct and makes the comparison with Madeiras (about potential future valuation) difficult. I think that all but the Guild faithful (like us) get confused and offended when when we start harping on about where the guitars are built and making distinctions among what Fender has decreed are all Guild acoustic guitars. And therein lies the rub... By not distinguishing the GADs with some independent branding, they have muddied the water. And, for that matter, you've got the DVs now made in Mexico that additionally compound the problem.

Bottom line, I won't even hazard a guess.

 

[Ridgemont]

GADs are built of solid and pretty decent tonewoods, and one piece necks.

Maderias are built with mostly laminates.

Here is my overrated opinion. I think it is comparing apples and oranges. Maderia was made during a time when Asian import guitars were built with the cheapest low-grade materials. Other brands did the same and hence most of us have attributed Asian guitars as crappy low end stuff. Much has changed over the last 30 years and now the GADs are build with a much higher standard and attention to detail. The materials used are much much better quality. For example, I have a Sigma classical I am holding on to for nostalgic reasons but it is not even fit for firewood. Some Asian imports are of high quality and I think that reputation alone will help them in retaining most of their value over the next decades.

That being said, a GAD is NOT an American Guild. No matter how it sounds, there is some prestige that comes with the Made In America label and with that comes additional cost. I do not want to get into the "Which one sounds better" debate, but I think that American made guitars will always have the edge in the used market. I believe Fender knew this and that is why they decided to market GADs as Guilds. Mainly to tie in their tradition of quality with the new Asian import line.

Bottom line, I think GADs will retain their value based on the Guild name on the cover and their reputation over the coming years. However, they will never tough the resale value of an American instrument.

 

[adorshki]

Bottom line, I won't even hazard a guess.

Not even between red and black? :lol: Actually something just occurred to me: Various manufacturers, automakers in particular come to mind, have been known to subsidize one part of their lineup with another. If for example the imported guitars are profitable enough to allow them to sell the american made guitars at a lower price point, I don't think that's bad thing AT ALL!! Let's just hope Fender doesn't see this and decide to tell us: "yeah, THAT'S why we do that" :lol:

 

[chazmo]

Bottom line, I won't even hazard a guess.

Not even between red and black? :lol: Actually something just occurred to me: Various manufacturers, automakers in particular come to mind, have been known to subsidize one part of their lineup with another. If for example the imported guitars allow them to sell the american made guitars at a lower price point, I don't think that's bad thing AT ALL!! Let's just hope Fender doesn't see this and decide to tell us: "yeah, THAT'S why we do that" :lol:

More like black and blue, Al.

 

[Ian]

My impression is that GAD's dont hold their value very well at all ?

 

[Pike]

There is or was a fellow who posted who worked at Westerly, claimed the the Madiera's were junk... don't remember who he is and I can't find the post.

 

[twocorgis]

[And, for that matter, you've got the DVs now made in Mexico that additionally compound the problem.

Mexican made DVs?

Cross another "Guild" off the list!

 

[JimB1]

I think in general even the US made Guilds don't hold value as well as Gibson and Martin (not entirely sure why) so used values of non-us made Guilds will probably fall at least at the same rate if not more. I'd say look at some used prices of comparable Epiphone models for the last few years and that's probably the range you'll see GAD models in the next few years.

I like the GAD models I've tried but I don't think playability or tone really have a whole lot of say in the value of a used instrument though. More like numbers produced and how many are still out there.

I picked up my Madeira A2 for $50 and it's an early Japan made solid mahogany. Doubt you'll see any GAD models that cheap used anytime soon though (If you do, let me know where ) My thought is that in a few years, you may see used GADs going for $250 or so though. I don't see any reason why they should retain or increase their value.

They are a good, mass produced guitar at a lower price point. Nothing wrong with that at all.

JMHO

-Jim

 

[devellis]

I think in general even the US made Guilds don't hold value as well as Gibson and Martin (not entirely sure why)

If I had to guess, I'd say name recognition. People have heard of Martin and Gibson and have an image in their mind that they're quality brands of long standing. Guild just isn't as well known. Those in the know recognize that Guild has maintained a reputation for quality and value since the brand's appearance in the 1950s but lots more people recognize the Martin and Gibson names. If you're selling through a venue like eBay, that can translate into more bids for the better known brands.

 

[Telenator]

I used to sell Guild and Madiera back in the late 70's at Ted Shogry's Music Store in Pittsfield Mass. Some of the Madieras were your basic student model guitars, but others were truly outstanding. I owned one for a few years that I loaned to a friend who gave it to some broad he was trying to hustle. I wasn't too happy about that.

 

[JimbowF212]

As you can see by my signature this is a subject that I have some experience with. I own a Maderia. it is the guitar that I learned on some 38 yrs ago or so. I'd say that like it's importer Guild, the Maderia is suffering from a lack of name recognition. Now these Guitars are by no means in the class with any US made guitar but, I think they will hold their own with anything in their respective class by anyone else. I have an A-30R which is of laminated woods spruce for the top and Rosewood for the back and sides. I would say that it is better then most of the guitars in the student catagory, which I would put it in, it is certainly a better guitar the the el cheapo student models handled by Musician Friend (e.g. The Rogue brand). I believe the New GADs are made of solid woods, hence the much higher price tags. I too would like to see the GADs some how a little more less like the Am Guilds also. BTW I have no experience with the GADs. JMHO FWIW

 

[SkippyX]

I think in general even the US made Guilds don't hold value as well as Gibson and Martin (not entirely sure why) so used values of non-us made Guilds will probably fall at least at the same rate if not more. I'd say look at some used prices of comparable Epiphone models for the last few years and that's probably the range you'll see GAD models in the next few years.

I like the GAD models I've tried but I don't think playability or tone really have a whole lot of say in the value of a used instrument though. More like numbers produced and how many are still out there.

I picked up my Madeira A2 for $50 and it's an early Japan made solid mahogany. Doubt you'll see any GAD models that cheap used anytime soon though (If you do, let me know where ) My thought is that in a few years, you may see used GADs going for $250 or so though. I don't see any reason why they should retain or increase their value.

They are a good, mass produced guitar at a lower price point. Nothing wrong with that at all.

JMHO

-Jim

(not trying to kick off a GAD rant)

I have to say I hope you're right. If you start seeing used GADs show up at that price I might have a shot at having a variety of very very good acoustics at a reasonable price.

I'm not one of those guys that can afford to toss around +$1000 p/guitar. I picked up my GAD-50 for less than $500 and felt like I had stolen something.

The other day I was in the local GC's high-end room noodling around on some pretty expensive Breedloves, Taylors, Martins & Gibsons. I'd put my GAD up against any of them, tone-wise, and I liked the neck on my GAD better than any of them.

If I see a $250 GAD 12 string I will own it - double-quick.