New user with M-75 question

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Hello everyone :)
I've just signed up here as I'm considering a Guild purchase, but I know nothing about them in truth, as I've always been a Fender player. I'm a big fan of Peter Hammill and always loved his black M-75 on the cover of his album 'Over'. I'm not really that bothered about going the vintage route, but one thing that did seem strange to me is that the modern M-75s seem to have a different body shape, with a more pronounced horn. Am I right, or do my eyes need testing?
Cheers all ;-)
 

Stuball48

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A big hearty welcome and know nothing about your M 75 but others will be along, shortly
 

DThomasC

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Welcome. Do you mean this album cover?
Peter_Hammill_Over.jpg


That looks like a mid 70's Bluesbird. They may have still been calling them M-75's at that point, but they are very different from the early (late 50's to early 60's) M-75 Aristocrats and from the late 60's M-75 Bluesbirds. The earlier guitars as well as the current reissue M-75 are hollow like a big archtop guitar. The one on the album cover is solid like a Les Paul, but unlike a Les Paul the body is all Mahogany.

Of the new instruments manufactured by Guild, probably the closest to Peter Hammill's is the Bluesbird with Seymour Duncam humbucker pickups. There are a number of instruments called Aristocrats. As already said, the M-75 is a fully hollow guitar with pickups similar to a P-90. Not that that's bad, you might actually like it, but it's very different from Peter Hammill's. Other Aristocrat's are solid body guitars with harp tailpieces.

Vintage Bluesbirds like Peter's are available and are generally killer guitars with the original Guild HB-1 pickups. They're not cheap, but they often cost a lot less than a similar Gibson. Asking prices for samples currently on Reverb are $2k+, but you can find one for less if you're patient.
 

walrus

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DTC has given you a great answer, so I'll just say "Welcome!".

walrus
 

DThomasC

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Here's one on ebay that appears to be near mint (the bridge is not original) and currently at ~$1k with 8 days to go.

And, I realized what you meant about the different body shape. In the late 90's and early 2000's Guild made a different Bluesbird (not labeled M-75) that was derived from the George Gruhn designed Nightbird. These Bluesbirds have a chambered mahogany body with a carved maple top and are an incredible bargain in the used market. Asking price is often up to $1500, but you can find them for less than $1000 and they are amazing instruments. Not the same as Peter Hammill's, but still amazing.

And while I'm rambling, some of the last of the hollow M-75s made around 1970 are reported to have a partial center block that runs from the tail pin forward to under the bridge. I do not know how to identify these instruments visually. I don't even know for sure if they had harp tailpieces or the trapezoid tailpiece found on solid M-75 Bluesbirds.
 

fronobulax

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DTC did the heavy lifting. I'm thinking the M-75 nomenclature persisted from the mid '60's to the end of the 1970's. The thing that most people miss is that circa 1972 the design switched. The older version was fully hollow whereas the newer version was a solid body, I think chambered. The quickest way to tell is the more recent ones are thinner and the older ones had binding on the top and the bottom as opposed to just the top. So the album cover would seem to have a ("solid") M-75 from circa 1972 or later.

If you want a good vintage match searching for a Guild M-75 and then only looking at the late 1970's should get you close. This one was offered for $1350. but I'm not sure when.
 

DThomasC

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According to Hans, both the hollow and solid M-75 Bluesbirds were available for a short time - probably very early 70's, I don't remember for sure. The ones that I lack details on are the transitional instruments. Technically part of the hollow line I believe, but with a short center block. Maybe a little along the lines of a SF4, but with the block only extending part way up the body from the tail.
 

matsickma

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I'm tempted to say it's a 70's M-80 as in the double cutaway equivalent of the carved "solid body" of the M75 reference above. If you look real close at the bass side of the guitar where the neck attaches to the body it looks like a another cutaway "horn".
Personally, the M80 is one of my favorite models. Easy handling and playing!

M
 

matsickma

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Upon second thought...maybe I'm seeing a blury pickup selector switch and not a double cutaway horn!
 
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Thanks for the hearty welcome and all the input, it's really appreciated :)
I've been doing some searching and I'm convinced that the current range are curvier/rounder than the older Bluesbirds/M-75s. It's difficult to describe, but the older ones seem slightly 'flatter' to me, both on the sides and on the horn. I have a cheapo Dearmond which has this flatter shape, but the new Guild models don't look like that to me. I wonder if it's due to the neck being fixed in a different position. In the older ones the neck joins the body between the 18th and 19th fret, whereas modern ones join between 16 and 17.
 
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kakerlak

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@The Guilds of Grot I know those partial block semi-hollows tend to have harp tails and Mueller bridges; were they rear-routed with backplates, or loaded from the pickup cavities? I have it in my head that the only real tell for those is the bridge on an otherwise hollow-looking guitar, but maybe that's wrong. I wonder if any of them got the stop tail? There's no real structural limitation to have prevented using one, since they had a solid block under there.
 

fronobulax

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I've been doing some searching and I'm convinced that the current range are curvier/rounder than the older Bluesbirds/M-75s.

If by "current range" you are referring to the Newark Street line (i.e. from about 2013 on) you should note that Guild was very careful to use words like "inspired by" and "reimagined" as opposed to "reissue" when introducing the instruments. So it is almost to be expected that things could be different especially when parts availability or manufacturing economies or techniques have changed.

And in the specific case of the Bluesbird (aka M-75 and sometimes Aristocrat) the specs (including some body characteristics) changed from when it was discontinued in the late 1970's and then revived in the 1990's. So you probably will get closest with a 1970's era instrument.
 

kakerlak

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Yeah, keep your eye on the market and you should be able to snag a decent seventies model w/o any playability issues somewhere around $1-1.2k.
 

jp

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I'm not really that bothered about going the vintage route, but one thing that did seem strange to me is that the modern M-75s seem to have a different body shape, with a more pronounced horn. Am I right, or do my eyes need testing?

I've been doing some searching and I'm convinced that the current range are curvier/rounder than the older Bluesbirds/M-75s. It's difficult to describe, but the older ones seem slightly 'flatter' to me, both on the sides and on the horn. I have a cheapo Dearmond which has this flatter shape, but the new Guild models don't look like that to me. I wonder if it's due to the neck being fixed in a different position. In the older ones the neck joins the body between the 18th and 19th fret, whereas modern ones join between 16 and 17.

I agree with you. With the neck joint being higher, the newer ones appear to have the waist slightly lower, and the body above, including the horn appear to be a little larger or at least oriented differently. Whether this is true or not, I don't know. I haven't put the time into Photoshop comparisons, however, I thought the same thing as you the first time I saw them.

I hope you can score a nice vintage Bluesbird. Clean examples can be pricey. My '76 has been my main player for the past 6 months, and it makes me crave another one!

Welcome to the LTG! :)
 

The Guilds of Grot

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@The Guilds of Grot I know those partial block semi-hollows tend to have harp tails and Mueller bridges; were they rear-routed with backplates, or loaded from the pickup cavities? I have it in my head that the only real tell for those is the bridge on an otherwise hollow-looking guitar, but maybe that's wrong. I wonder if any of them got the stop tail? There's no real structural limitation to have prevented using one, since they had a solid block under there.

While I don't have the guitar in hand, I don't believe there are rear cover plates on the Sunburst model.
 

Rebosbro

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I have a 76 D-50 and just purchased a 74 Bluesbird. All original and sounds amazing! I wasn’t to put strap locks on it as it has a slight crack in the headstock( being repaired now), but can’t figure out how to take the back strap pin out.
Thanks!
 

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kakerlak

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I have a 76 D-50 and just purchased a 74 Bluesbird. All original and sounds amazing! I wasn’t to put strap locks on it as it has a slight crack in the headstock( being repaired now), but can’t figure out how to take the back strap pin out.
Thanks!
For whatever reason, guild used acoustic style friction fit end pins in a lot of their solidbodies. My advice is to use pliers (carefully), twist, and be prepared to destroy the factory endpin. Afterwards, you'll need to fill with something threadable, like plastic wood, or drill the hole out square and glue in a wood plug. Good luck!
 
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