Newark Street Fret Size (Too Tall)

[Seenoevil]

Hello all!
I have a NS x-175 Manhattan that I've been trying to bond with for a while now. It always seems to struggle with playing in tune.

I knew the turners were somewhat notorious for being a little difficult, but that wasn't the issue. I lowered the immaculately carved nut. I futzed with the intonation eventually carving a new bridge saddle with the proper compensation for my strings. I got everything dialed in, but I was still struggling with playing in tune.

Then I realized it was the frets. They're very tall. By my micrometer they are .085" wide and .065" tall (I triple checked). For reference, medium jumbo wire is .100" x .050". That's taller than any wire I can find for say from any manufacturer (the next tallest was .057").

Besides feeling a little like speed bumps up and down the neck, the additional height was making me pull notes sharp in my more exotic chord shapes.

This size wire seems to be standard across the Newark Street line. Has anyone else found it to be an issue? If so, have you found any solutions?

Thanks for reading, and sorry if this topic is well trod ground. I did do a search beforehand.

 

[KuuKOO]

I hadn't realized this but it sounds familiar. I sold my NS X-175 -- probably was mid 2010s model -- because I didn't bond with it. I couldn't figure out why because the instrument was otherwise spectacular.

 

[fronobulax]

Welcome. New topic for me so I will stand by and learn with you.

 

[Default]

If you love the guitar otherwise, I would take it to a luthier, and tell him/her what height you want. It would be worth the coin.

 

[shihan]

seenoevil, I felt the same way about my NSX-175. Like you, I didn’t see it at first. I loved the neck shape, so I fiddled with the action and such, then finally realized what the problem was. The frets are like railroad ties.
My luthier was able to take care of the problem at a reasonable cost.

 

[shihan]

Oh, and welcome!

 

[Walter Broes]

They are big and tall, yes. I actually kind of like them. Raising your action a little helps. A good tech should be able to take them down a little for much less than a refret.

 

[amnicon]

It took me a bit to adjust to the frets on my T-Bird. Now it's plenty familiar.

 

[GAD]

You might not like this answer, but learn to play with a lighter touch.

I learned to play on a vintage Guild and the frets were low and flat so I developed a death grip on the neck. Years later I bought a Super-Strat Jackson with jumbo frets and I could not play in tune because I'd squeeze every note and chord sharp. Those jumbo frets are actually designed to teach you to stop that (people used to scallop the fretboards on vintage Strats for the same reason), and after a while of only playing the Jackson I learned to back off on the monkey grip which then caused me to play faster as an unexpected benefit.

There is zero benefit to squeezing too hard and huge gains to be had learning to play with a lighter touch. For those saying they're too old to change, I was 45 when I bought that Jackson.

 

[shihan]

For me, the frets were uncomfortable just moving around the neck. It was like driving on railroad ties. They seem really square with sharp angles compared to other guitars I have.

 

[Seenoevil]

You might not like this answer, but learn to play with a lighter touch.

I learned to play on a vintage Guild and the frets were low and flat so I developed a death grip on the neck. Years later I bought a Super-Strat Jackson with jumbo frets and I could not play in tune because I'd squeeze every note and chord sharp. Those jumbo frets are actually designed to teach you to stop that (people used to scallop the fretboards on vintage Strats for the same reason), and after a while of only playing the Jackson I learned to back off on the monkey grip which then caused me to play faster as an unexpected benefit.

There is zero benefit to squeezing too hard and huge gains to be had learning to play with a lighter touch. For those saying they're too old to change, I was 45 when I bought that Jackson.

Huge fan of your website btw. It's a great resource.

The way I explained it to somebody else was that there are two issues here.

One is technical. Many skyscraper fret guitars also have a very flat radius and/or a very thin neck. Shredder guitar (like your Jackson). The meatier neck depth and 9.5" radius make it more difficult to modulate chording pressure IMHO.

Which brings me to number two, that it's an issue of mental bandwidth, especially when jumping between instruments. I learned on guitars from the Golden Age of medium jumbo frets on literally everything. No oompa loompas they. So, to then have to mentally adapt to a whole different approach for one guitar. Although, I'm now more aware of my monkey grip. So, that's a plus.

Really though, these are very tall frets. They've got .010" on just about everything else out there. I wonder why guild went this route, especially when you consider that it's a very traditional line.

 

[Seenoevil]

For me, the frets were uncomfortable just moving around the neck. It was like driving on railroad ties. They seem really square with sharp angles compared to other guitars I have.

Ditto on the feeling. At first I was quiet open to it and thought I'd adapt. But this intonation issue is another kettle of fish.

 

[GAD]

Huge fan of your website btw. It's a great resource.

The way I explained it to somebody else was that there are two issues here.

One is technical. Many skyscraper fret guitars also have a very flat radius and/or a very thin neck. Shredder guitar (like your Jackson). The meatier neck depth and 9.5" radius make it more difficult to modulate chording pressure IMHO.

Which brings me to number two, that it's an issue of mental bandwidth, especially when jumping between instruments. I learned on guitars from the Golden Age of medium jumbo frets on literally everything. No oompa loompas they. So, to then have to mentally adapt to a whole different approach for one guitar. Although, I'm now more aware of my monkey grip. So, that's a plus.

Really though, these are very tall frets. They've got .010" on just about everything else out there. I wonder why guild went this route, especially when you consider that it's a very traditional line.

Thanks!

The feeling of needing to adapt goes away when you learn to play with a lighter tough because you learn to play all your guitars with a lighter touch.

 

[fronobulax]

mentally adapt to a whole different approach for one guitar

My experience is with basses but I have found that to be an extremely good thing. If I have to get something done, I grab a short scale bass and just do it. But when I grab the long scale bass everything changes. I don't want to stretch to play the same riffs the same way so I find different riffs or different ways to play the same riff. I gravitate towards different parts of the neck. Much to my surprise those changes get brought back to my go to basses and end up expanding my "comfort zone". Same thing with acoustic vs. electric. There are some things I can play on one but not the other and my playing improves as I figure out why or make changes.

 

[The Guilds of Grot]

So I can't decide if I'm blessed or cursed!

I can't tell the difference between a 1-11/16" vs 1-5/8" nut. Can barely tell if I'm playing in tune. Definitely can't tell if the intonation is off. And sure as hell could never feel a 0.010" difference in fret height!

 

[fronobulax]

So I can't decide if I'm blessed or cursed!

Neither. You play bass too much and that has dulled your senses

 

[GGJaguar]

Neither. You play bass too much and that has dulled your senses

HA! Just snorted seltzer all over my keyboard.

 

[The Guilds of Grot]

Neither. You play bass too much and that has dulled your senses

You know, you may be right!