Possible problems with 2005 F50R?

[nnosa]

Hello all, this is my first post here. I have a few questions about the F-50R that I'm hoping someone can help me with.

I just recently bought a 2005 model and when it arrived I noticed that the lower right edge of the bridge is just slightly raised away from the top, maybe a couple millimeters. When I took it to Guitar Center to have it checked out, one employee said I should probably get it fixed, another employee said I shouldn't worry about it, and when I took it to Sam Ash, they also told me I shouldn't worry about it unless it starts lifting more. I figured I'd ask those who know since I remembered reading a post here about someone saying they could slip a piece of paper under, which I tried and it goes in about one centimeter.

Another thing is that the guitar doesn't seem that loud which I've heard they should be. Keeping in mind that I've never owned a steel-string or even played them very much so I don't know how it compares, and the strings are sort of worn, does anyone know if this is a possible indicator of a problem with the guitar?

Lastly, I might be nitpicking, but has anyone ever seen the triangular abalone inlays being spliced from two different pieces? It's sort of distracting and it seems unusual because I've always seen the inlays being cut from one piece.

This is my first acoustic guitar (I've been using an old beat up classical for years) so I don't know too much about what to look out for. I didn't even know that temperature and humidity affected guitars until I stumbled onto this forum! I just want to make sure everything's alright because other than the issues above I really love this guitar.

I'll try to attach some pictures to illustrate what I'm talking about but I can't seem to find my digital camera at the moment. Thanks for any help you guys can provide. This forum has been incredibly helpful.

 

[twocorgis]

Hello all, this is my first post here. I have a few questions about the F-50R that I'm hoping someone can help me with.

I just recently bought a 2005 model and when it arrived I noticed that the lower right edge of the bridge is just slightly raised away from the top, maybe a couple millimeters. When I took it to Guitar Center to have it checked out, one employee said I should probably get it fixed, another employee said I shouldn't worry about it, and when I took it to Sam Ash, they also told me I shouldn't worry about it unless it starts lifting more. I figured I'd ask those who know since I remembered reading a post here about someone saying they could slip a piece of paper under, which I tried and it goes in about one centimeter.

Another thing is that the guitar doesn't seem that loud which I've heard they should be. Keeping in mind that I've never owned a steel-string or even played them very much so I don't know how it compares, and the strings are sort of worn, does anyone know if this is a possible indicator of a problem with the guitar?

Lastly, I might be nitpicking, but has anyone ever seen the triangular abalone inlays being spliced from two different pieces? It's sort of distracting and it seems unusual because I've always seen the inlays being cut from one piece.

This is my first acoustic guitar (I've been using an old beat up classical for years) so I don't know too much about what to look out for. I didn't even know that temperature and humidity affected guitars until I stumbled onto this forum! I just want to make sure everything's alright because other than the issues above I really love this guitar.

Welcome nnosa!

I just recently bought a 1975 F50R and I'd be worried if the right hand part of the bridge were starting to come up. With the forces that guitars are subject to, it's not going to get any better. Where are you? Are there any real luthiers (meaning not Guitar Center or Sam Ash) near you?

Guild F bodies should be loud; louder than traditional dreadnaught style acoustics. Yours might just have dead strings. When were they changed last? The inlays are fine unless they're shrinking or falling out. They're supposed to look that way.

Posting some pics would definitely help us help you better. Please do!

 

[Guildmark]

Welcome, nnosa!

FWIW: I concur with all of twocorgis comments. But a good repair tech or luthier would be the one to look at your issues and advise you. Guitar Center doesn't carry Guild out here (or in most of their stores that I know of) and their local reputation for offering advise is ..... well, not 5 Star. At Sam Ash you are not likely to find an experienced Guild specialist, either. None of your problems sound like serious playability issues and the concern, conscientiousness, and "love" you are already displaying will keep things well under control. Someone here can probably steer you to a good tech in you area.

Good luck.
Post well. Post often.

 

[killdeer43]

Welcome nnosa.

You've come to the right place and brought along a fine Guild. The bridge on my D-25 was lifting when I got it and I had it reset right away.
Given what you have in hand with the F50, I wouldn't hesitate to get it done and not wait for it to get any worse. :wink:

Joe

 

[Taylor Martin Guild]

I just got a 2005 D-55 and the bridge was lifting slightly on it.
I had it re-glued and it is now holding great.
You should do the same.
If it gets worse, you may have to have the bridge removed and then re-glued.
That is more work and will cost more to have done.

One more thing,
I had a JF-55 about a year ago. It's very close to your F50R in build.
I was not happy with the projection it had and found out that a Jumbo is not as loud as a Dred is.
The Jumbo may be more balanced and have more sustain, but it isn't as loud.
I play with Bluegrass players and I needed more volume, so I sold the JF-55 and purchased the D-55.
I have also found that Jumbo bodies are no longer comfortable for me to play when sitting, which I do 99% of the time.

 

[jcwu]

I was not happy with the projection it had and found out that a Jumbo is not as loud as a Dred is.
The Jumbo may be more balanced and have more sustain, but it isn't as loud.

That's been my experience as well, although I only have one jumbo to compare against the dreads. However, I commonly hear the "jumbo's got a bigger top so it will have more volume" argument, but I haven't experienced it in real life.

 

[chazmo]

Welcome aboard, nnosa. You're certainly starting with a great guitar!

[ ... ] I might be nitpicking, but has anyone ever seen the triangular abalone inlays being spliced from two different pieces? It's sort of distracting and it seems unusual because I've always seen the inlays being cut from one piece.

I'm not sure what you mean, but the fingerboard's block-style markers are normally three pieces... Two cuts of mother-of-pearl, with an inset triangle of abalone, where the triangle points toward the higher end of the neck. Are you saying the abalone triangle part (of the three-piece inlay) itself is not one piece? If so, that *is* unusual. Perhaps it was built as one piece and broke?? A picture would help.

Usually a bridge lifts as the top gets slightly misshapen -- this often happens because your guitar is too dry (dehumidified) and you likely need to humidify it and acclimate it to around 50% RH. See the Taylor guitar website for more information about humidity than you ever wanted. Once you get it stabilized, you'll probably see the lift go away, but you should still have the bridge removed and reglued by a tech/luthier.

As for the tone of the guitar, your perspective is very interesting. I strongly recommend trying a new set of phosphor-bronze strings before making any conclusions about the sound. There are a zillion string options out there, but try an uncoated set of D'Addario PBs to start with.

 

[nnosa]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I'm currently a student at UCLA so if anyone knows of reliable luthiers in either Los Angeles or Lakewood, CA, I'd really appreciate a recommendation.

Taylor Martin Guild - This might be a stupid question, but what's the difference between having it re-glued versus removed and re-glued? Won't the luthier have to remove the bridge in order to re-glue it? Also, any idea how much this is gonna cost me? I'll also have to check out a D55 in the future.

Chazmo - Thanks for the string recommendation and humidity info. I'll see if they solve the problems.

Here's a picture of the inlays. My camera doesn't do macro too well so they're not the clearest, but in person there are unusually straight lines where one pattern/appearance ends and another begins. These are two out of the three funky ones. Maybe I'm just being paranoid!

I'm still trying to get a clear picture of the bridge but my camera is making it a bit difficult.

 

[bluesypicky]

Hi nnosa!

You already had some good advice here, so I will just add another welcome!
I suspect (and certainly hope) that you are slightly underestimating millimeters, because a couple of them would be a huge lift for the bridge.... Hope you can post the pics of it.
And congratulations on a great guitar! Doesn't seem to me like there is much to worry about in what you are describing.

 

[killdeer43]

Won't the luthier have to remove the bridge in order to re-glue it? Also, any idea how much this is gonna cost me? I'll also have to check out a D55 in the future.

My understanding is that the best way to cure a lifting bridge IS to totally remove it and then reglue/reset it.
My repairman said that there's no way he would be able to guarantee his work if he didn't.

New nut, new saddle, bridge reset: $125.

Happy I am, :wink:
Joe

 

[pickoid]

One more thing,
I had a JF-55 about a year ago. It's very close to your F50R in build.
I was not happy with the projection it had and found out that a Jumbo is not as loud as a Dred is.
The Jumbo may be more balanced and have more sustain, but it isn't as loud.
I play with Bluegrass players and I needed more volume, so I sold the JF-55 and purchased the D-55.
I have also found that Jumbo bodies are no longer comfortable for me to play when sitting, which I do 99% of the time.

I'm the current owner of said JF55. I agree with TMG, it does not seem as loud to me as my other guitars when I'm playing it. But the interesting thing is, I have had several other people comment on how loud the guitar is when they listen to it, even in relation to my other guitars. Could it be that it projects so much to the front that the perception of the player is that it's not as loud as it really is?

I have a friend that owns a pretty good Martin D-35. When you're listening to him play that guitar, it literally sounds like the sound is originating somewhere a few feet in front of and a few feet off center from the guitar. It's kind of uncanny. Another way to say it - if you were blindfolded and listening to the instrument and tried to pinpoint it, you wouldn't point exactly at the guitar.

The point of all this drivel is to say that sometimes it's good to hear the guitar from the perspective of the listener as well as the player. If you have a guitar playing friend or acquaintance, have them play the guitar and see what it sounds like.

FINALLY, get that bridge fixed! It's a very simple repair, just glue and clamp, and it absolutely must be done. I'm in the "don't have the entire bridge removed unless it's absolutely necessary" camp. I had a brand new Martin HD-28 once that arrived with a lifting bridge on the bass side just like you describe. Probably excessive heat during shipping. It's disconcerting, but it's not that big a deal. Once you have it fixed, you'll forget about it and just enjoy the guitar. Don't put it off.

 

[chazmo]

nnosa,

The abalone triangle at the top of the picture looks like one piece to me. The upper left part of it seems more reflective than the rest of it, but I see grain running across the line and thus I suspect it's just one piece. The second one, below it, looks like it could be two pieces, but I don't think so. I think I see some grain running from above the bottom area that runs into the bottom... I'm guessing that both of these are a single piece and the abalone that it was cut from just had a lot of character, nnosa. I like it!

Oh, and regarding the humidity... Don't think that'll solve the problem even if it lays the bridge back down on the top. I agree with the others that you should plan to have it removed and reglued for peace of mind. You don't want it pulling up more and going out of tune while you're using it. FYI, a luthier/tech will heat up the bridge with an iron, get a thin blade underneath it and gently pry it up so that it doesn't split wood or do crack. Once the bridge and the soundboard area cleaned up, it'll be glued and clamped firmly and you'll never have to think about it again. Until you do that, you will likely have intonation problems.

 

[killdeer43]

Certainly no luthier here, but I have a few skills that gave me enough courage to do a bridge reset a couple of years ago on an Epiphone 12-string.
Just the right amount of heat and a thin, 3" drywall knife did the trick, in the manner alluded to earlier. After cleaning the bottom of the bridge and the top of the guitar, I glued and clamped it back in place.

I did a decent job, and the fellow who bought it from me still plays it and comments on the great sound. He paid 3 times what I paid when I bought it on the Bay as a "project guitar."

I would certainly NOT do that on a Guild, however. :wink:

Joe