Ready to buy new F512..should I look for New Hartford built?

[Brad Little]

I'm surprised to read that there is NO SERIAL number imprinted anywhere on the guitar except on the paper label....can anyone confirm that there's no number hiding inside, perhaps on the endblock?

The Tacoma serial numbers start with T...does that mean the New Hartford ones start with N? I checked the "Dating your Guild" webpage but it stops at 2005.

I've not seen one anywhere on mine other than the label, Serial number starts with NN, at least that's what I copied to my records, I'll take a closer look and make sure my old eyes aren't misreading NH as NN.
Brad

 

[Taylor Martin Guild]

You should be able to get a great price on a new, old stock Tacoma.
I have a 2005 Tacoma build D-55 that is a great guitar in every way.
I would not worry whether a new Guild was built in Tacoma or NH as long as it wasn't marked Used.
Good luck in your search and please report back when you find one,
TMG.

 

[chazmo]

Carpe,

I'll ask the guys in NH... That's a very good point. There really oughta be something stamped inside the body since labels are relatively easily to forge and lose. I'm pretty sure the situation is similar with the Tacoma-era guitars too.

edit: They're on summer shutdown until start of Aug... I'll let you know what I hear.

 

[devellis]

As I understand the serial number prefixes, NM would be a 2009 New Hartford guitar; NN, would be a 2010; NO (when they show up) would be 2011; etc. My 512 was finished in 2009 and is an "NM." "N" stands for New Hartford and the following letter represents the year. So, Chaz, your 2006 Tacoma should start with TJ -- T for Tacoma and K for 2006.

 

[chazmo]

As I understand the serial number prefixes, NM would be a 2009 New Hartford guitar; NN, would be a 2010; NO (when they show up) would be 2011; etc. My 512 was finished in 2009 and is an "NM." "N" stands for New Hartford and the following letter represents the year. So, Chaz, your 2006 Tacoma should start with TJ -- T for Tacoma and K for 2006.

Yup, exactly right, Bob! Mine is a "TJ". And, yes the New Hartford folks are using the "N" prefix in place of Tacoma's "T". They're also using the Julian (day-of-the-year) date just like Tacoma did as the next three digits. The question at hand is whether the serial (or some other identification) is present in the guitar body in a way that can be consulted.

I recall on the tour that there were some etchings done in the wood along the way, but I don't know if any of that survives the build process or is even intended to be referenced in a way that could be related to identify the guitar.

 

[adorshki]

I recall on the tour that there were some etchings done in the wood along the way, but I don't know if any of that survives the build process or is even intended to be referenced in a way that could be related to identify the guitar.

The first night I brought my D25 home I noticed the s/n on the headstock for the first time. It was another one of those little deatils that told me "Something special's going on here". It adds value for insurance including theft recovery and increases owner pride. Please pass that on if not already understood. Be nice to hear the etchings will fulfill the old headstock stamp role.
"Summer shutdown"? Boy they really will "release no guitar before its time" will they? :lol:

 

[Dr Izza Plumber]

Tacoma built some pretty decent Guild guitars, and I wouldn't hesitate to add one of their 512's to my git room.

 

[Carpe Guitar]

@devellis: Bob, thanks for the info...you're right, I found their serial number explanation on their "Dating your Guild" page at the bottom of this link
http://www.guildguitars.com/resources/guild_dating.php

QUOTE from link:
* The first letter "T", identifies the guitar as being made at our manufacturing facility in Tacoma, Washington.
* The second letter identifies the year of manufacture and is based on a dating system introduced by the Tacoma guitar manufacturing plant in 1998 that associated the letter "B" with that specific year. Successive years are associated with the alphabet in sequence. Using this system, the letter "J" would stand for the year 2006.
* The first three numbers of the serial number are derived from the "Julian" calendar which associates each day of the year to a respective number from 1 to 365 in numerical sequence. These three numbers identify the month and day of manufacture by their respective numerical order. In this case, the numbers 037 identify the instrument as being made on the 37th day of the year, which according to the Julian calendar, is February the 6th.
* The final three digits of the serial number refer to the unit number built on that specific day. In this example, 016 identifies this serial number as being from the 16th instrument built on that day.
* To recap this example: T (Built in Tacoma), J (Built in 2006), 037 (Built on February 6th), 016 (The 16th instrument built on that day)
===============END QUOTE==============
It's a little obscure and I found myself counting letters and years aloud and on my fingers! Hmm, what will Guild do after 2022, which is the letter "Z"?

My original thread question has been answered so I'm moving on the next step...buying! My new thread will be about that. Thanks again all.

 

[adorshki]

It's a little obscure and I found myself counting letters and years aloud and on my fingers! Hmm, what will Guild do after 2022, which is the letter "Z"?

Not to worry. They'll probably be in a different factory and thus have a new alpha prefix. :lol:

 

[bunuel]

Regardless of factories, make or model, the smartest way to go is used. Cost less, exerts way less cost on the planet, & often makes for a better guitar. There's no beating well-played well made guitar. People like N. Young & Tom Petty don't play vintage guitars (& are seldom or never seen playing new 'uns) because they need to save money, they grab & play 'em because they sound good.

That said, again it's easier on the wallet & the planet to go used. Buying new w/ guitar gear is at least as big a bath as buying cars new & as bad for the environment. Just last week, I was sitting with a bunch of musician friends & as a laugher we compiled lists of lessons learned. Some were unprintable, but one thing made every single musicians top ten list: never, ever buy gear new.

 

[Brad Little]

This is a little off topic, but LTG tour members might find it interesting. My F-512 was the 8th guitar produced on the 119th day of the year, so if I'm doing the math right, that would have been on April 29th. I wonder if the builders knew then it would be a door prize?
Brad

 

[Willy]

I just posted a new thread with a New Hartford F512R for sale in Denver - $1600 or reasonable offer. Might be worth checking out.

http://denver.craigslist.org/msg/1864620704.html

 

[chazmo]

Regardless of factories, make or model, the smartest way to go is used. Cost less, exerts way less cost on the planet, & often makes for a better guitar. There's no beating well-played well made guitar. People like N. Young & Tom Petty don't play vintage guitars (& are seldom or never seen playing new 'uns) because they need to save money, they grab & play 'em because they sound good.

That said, again it's easier on the wallet & the planet to go used. Buying new w/ guitar gear is at least as big a bath as buying cars new & as bad for the environment. Just last week, I was sitting with a bunch of musician friends & as a laugher we compiled lists of lessons learned. Some were unprintable, but one thing made every single musicians top ten list: never, ever buy gear new.

I only take issue with this in terms of defining "smarter." In this case, it totally depends on whether you value having the company stand behind their guitar.

When you buy used, my understanding is that you cannot use the Fender/Guild warrantee. We've certainly talked to folks here who've taken advantage of the warrantee and either gotten replacement guitars or gotten service... I know that with Taylor, sometimes you'll get a break with a used guitar if it's got some sort of factory repair needed, but I'm not sure you'll get that from Guild.

That said, if you think New Hartford's teething time is over and you don't really want/need a backstop for your guitar, I'd have to agree there's good value buying used rather than new. There isn't much of a used inventory from New Hartford (yet) because production is only a year and a half old there, so not much of a used market to talk about in that case. We did hear about one person having finish problems on his NH which he ended up sending back, I think.

 

[adorshki]

I only take issue with this in terms of defining "smarter." In this case, it totally depends on whether you value having the company stand behind their guitar. When you buy used, my understanding is that you cannot use the Fender/Guild warrantee.

That's a biggie for me, even though I haven't needed it yet. Later I came to appreciate all the fun I had watching (listening ?) to the guitar(s) "grow up". Like I said on another thread, I'm about $1500.00 total into my D25 now, including two complete re-frets and there's only about 20 hours of playing since the last one. As far as I'm concerned, except for finish wear, the guitar's better than new, and I've had over 1300 hours of fun with it. You can't convince me I'd get a better deal with a used instrument. :wink:

 

[capnjuan]

... We did hear about one person having finish problems on his NH which he ended up sending back, I think.

Hi Chaz; you think right; our member Supersonic; bought used, sight-unseen cross-country but sent it back due to thermal fractures. Bought new but it came with some finish cooties ... he sent that one back too.

 

[fsl009]

If anyone looking for new Hartford guitars for good price. I found my local Guild and Taylor dealer in Orem, Utah has great price. I haven't see anybody else has lower price. For example 2010 F512 for $2100. I have to pay tax on top of the price because I am local. Out of Utah don't have to pay tax.

SL

 

[fronobulax]

@Carpe - welcome.

On NH serial numbers - I seem to recall that the folks at LMG 2010 said there was no serial number except what was on the label and that was added at the final finishing step. I didn't want to touch anything I was not invited to but it did look to me like the serial and model were written into a handwritten ledger at the factory. All the serial number tells you is when the guitar was finished. It won't tell you anything about when it was started or other guitars that were built "nearby". It also uniquely identifies the item and I share the concern that it is only ink on a label.

There may be other numbers on parts but they were used to keep track of the parts during production and there is no system that relates those numbers back to the final guitar.

My understanding is that a new guitar will have a warranty whether it is NOS from Tacoma or new from New Hartford. I have seen several cases where NOS will have a lower price for the same model compared to NH. It is not clear whether dealers, in general, are sensitive to which factory something came from so if it is important, specify it in the sales contract.

From what I have read, unless you have a strong opinion on truss rod configuration/design there is no general reason to pick NH over Tacoma if both are being sold as new with a warranty.

It does seem that, if you are willing to go used, a used Guild will be cheaper than a comparable new one. In one of the used vs. new threads my rhetorical question - what does the marketplace say the warranty is worth? -got an answer of about $300 which was the price difference between two new guitars that were comparable but sold through different supply chains on of which did not have a warranty.

 

[West R Lee]

Welp. some of these guys pretty much know where I'll come down on this one, so I'll just state facts.....and try and take the emotional issue out of the fray.

The JF55 and the F50R are the same guitar....both rosewood jumbos....same appointments, same wood quality. MSRP on a N.H. built F50R is $3350 :shock: :shock: , but you can steal one for $2500-$2600. I just bought an immaculate Westerly JF55 (9 out of 10) on the condition scale for less than $1100. That's for a proven, beautiful playing, looking and sounding rosewood jumbo....at least as nice a guitar as a new F50R. I guess the question is what an insurance policy is worth to you or what is "new" worth to you? Personally I just can't see that policy being worth the $1500 difference between a nice used guitar and a new one.

Find a nice Westerly. :wink: By the way, a JF55 12 is the same guitar as an F512. This I've got a picture here somewhere of our member twocorgis playing a beauty of a JF55 12 at the Arlington Guitar Show a couple of weeks ago. Sticker on that one was $1800 as I recall.....probably could have bought it for $1400. That guitar looked and sounded amazing.

Welcome to the website,

West

 

[adorshki]

I guess the question is what an insurance policy is worth to you or what is "new" worth to you? Personally I just can't see that policy being worth the $1500 difference between a nice used guitar and a new one.

There IS another factor for me at least. Although the warranty was important to me, I wanted the satisfaction of watching a guitar age and knowing you've owned it since new, and you know EVERYTHING about it's history, "NO surprises". I don't like surprises, but that's my problem. :roll:

Find a nice Westerly

Still good advice in its own right. 8)