Recording Questions

[CarvedTop]

Hi all,

I use Guild Peregrine in a lot of my recording, and while I love the sound of it, I have some challenges with it.
The high end sounds great but the bottom end is really boomy. I have the guitar EQ on full treble, and hand mute a lot, but it’s still a struggle.

My usual setup for recording is running the guitar into a DI. From the DI, the signal goes a to one channel on my interface, and also ti my amp, which is mic’d, and goes to another channel on the interface.

So is this something I can improve via a different recording method, or should I consider a different pickup system?

If anyone has suggestions on how to get the sound more balanced (less boom), I’d love to hear them.

Thanks!
RayK

 

[Nuuska]

Hello

Since you are splitting the signal to direct and amplified, the first question is : are both channels boomy ?
Second question is : how are the controls of the guitar set ?

 

[CarvedTop]

Hello

Since you are splitting the signal to direct and amplified, the first question is : are both channels boomy ?
Second question is : how are the controls of the guitar set ?

OK, so I went back and listened to a few audio files where I had a DI and Amp (wet) setup. The DI tracks sounds fairly dry as you would expect, with a slight bit of excess bottom. The Wet tracks all have noticeable excess bottom end, and some distortion.

As for my settings: I usually have the Volume all the way up and the EQ at full Treble. My interface is a Focusrite Scarlet 18i20, the amp is a Vox AC15/Normal channel, and the Mic is a Sennheiser e906.

I always thought that the Mahogany body contributed to the "warm" sound of this guitar, but now I have a suspicion that there are a couple of factors contributing to what I'm hearing.

1. Maybe the Fishman Pup distorts when at full Volume, and I should lower that when recording.

2. The e906 has a 3 way switch, which adjusts Presence (frequency response):
Boosted - aggressive metal guitar
Normal - classic rock guitar
Attenuated - warm and smooth jazz and blues
Mine was set to Attenuated.

I'll try recording with some different settings and see if that solves this problem.
If you have any suggestions or tips, I'm all ears ;')

 

[Groundwire]

Here are a couple of very general suggestions:

• First, it’s quite common to need to High Pass Filter guitars, especially in a mix. They tend to overlap with the bass, and a HPF set around 100hz can be useful
• Check your mic position. A lot of people put those e906’s right up against the grill. Some even hang them right against the amp. This creates serious proximity effect that greatly increases bass frequencies. Start by micing the place where the speaker cone meets the dust cap, and the back the mic 3-5 inches away from the grille. You’ll notice less bass and more detail
• Turn the bass down on the amp. Big full guitar sounds are great when playing by yourself in a room, but to sit in a mix, you need a thinner, more mid forward sound. I’m not familiar with the peregrine, but it appears to be designed to provide acoustic type sounds. The AC15 is an electic amp, and isn’t designed to handle such a full frequency input. Try the bass at Zero as a starting point.
• Try using a DI with tone controls, or use some EQ in your DAW
• A bit of compression and reverb can help bring out the high end and smooth out the sound

 

[lungimsam]

Have you tried mic-ing the guitar and not using the Fishmans?

 

[teleharmonium]

If the guitar has a built in preamp which steps down the impedance of the piezo, which it likely does, the DI box would be doing a second, unnecessary impedance stepdown. Anybody have specs on the output from the Peregrine ? Or this model of preamp ?

 

[awagner]

Have you tried mic-ing the guitar and not using the Fishmans?

The Peregrine is a solid-body/chambered guitar. Mic-ing it would be like mic-ing an electric.

 

[Westerly Wood]

The Peregrine is a solid-body/chambered guitar. Mic-ing it would be like mic-ing an electric.

probably get rid of the boom issue though

lol

 

[Nuuska]

If the guitar has a built in preamp which steps down the impedance of the piezo, which it likely does, the DI box would be doing a second, unnecessary impedance stepdown. Anybody have specs on the output from the Peregrine ? Or this model of preamp ?

The DI-box has it's own output-impedace that is indipendent of the impedance of previous unit.

So that is definitely not the issue.

 

[Midnight Toker]

I'm with mic placement, amp/daw eq....and if also needed, compression.

 

[teleharmonium]

The DI-box has it's own output-impedace that is indipendent of the impedance of previous unit.

So that is definitely not the issue.

I don't think that is right. Impedance varies with frequency, so we deal with nominal impedances, which is to say in ranges. A di has a nominal output z, but that is based on a presumption of an appropriate input z times the stepdown ratio. If you feed it something outside the expected range, it can only lower the z at the hard wired ratio that it has.

That's really all a passive di is, a transformer with some shielding and a passive split for the hi z out. An active di can get more complicated.

 

[Nuuska]

You are right about passive di-box - all it is is just a transformer and so the impedances act like you say. I was thinking active DI:s - while I have been using mostly those for last 40 years.

 

[lungimsam]

I hear people say yank fish man replace with Baggs.

I have only heard one person say they liked fish man and he was using es2

 

[lungimsam]

Your amp cabinet may be causing the boom. You said in the first post that you miked your amp so I’m assuming you mean you’re using a speaker cabinet.
Go di to focusrite to garage band. That’s what I did to get rid of the boom from my amp.

 

[Bernie]

I agree with Groundwire that using an amp designed for acoustic guitars would do you good...A Vox AC-15 amp is designed with an electric guitar in mind ; some pre-amps are going to be able to compensate the fact the guitar is an acoustic, others won't...My Taylor (with ES-1.2) doesn't sound too good on my Peavy Classic 30 tube amp, whereas my Washburn - with a B Band pre-amp - copes with it well enough...I now use an Acus amp (they are Italian made and good value in Europe) and that works well with the Taylor (and many others pre-amps-probably all of them-). On the Taylor ES the range is much smaller, and it allows a very precise tone setting, but it is not always enough (as in valve amps for instance)...

 

[CarvedTop]

Wow! Thanks for all the great advice.
I do have access to an acoustic amp, so I'll give that a try.
I'm also going to try the HPF in the DAW, and some compression.

Updates to follow

RayK

 

[CarvedTop]

I hear people say yank fish man replace with Baggs.

I have only heard one person say they liked fish man and he was using es2

I have a guitarist buddy that says the same thing. He swears by LL Baggs pickups.

 

[CarvedTop]

The Peregrine is a solid-body/chambered guitar. Mic-ing it would be like mic-ing an electric.

No, but I'll give it a try. When I play the Peregrine unplugged, I do like the sound, so mic-ing it may be the way to go.