Relic rant

tonepoet

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I bristle a little bit when people seem to promulgate the stereotype that the older generation believes that the younger generation lacks a work ethic or similar work related motivations or skills.

I will say that "'repair' meant throw it away and buy a new one" has been my experience since at least 1980 when dealing with products that have "smart" electronics.
Sorry, fronobulax, I should have been more specific with my explanation. Yes, when it comes to circuit boards, it has been "throw it away and get a new one" since the 1980s. On that I agree.

But, I was a Stationary Engineer. My line of engineering included HVAC work such as "Air Handlers" for hospitals (Fan units the size of semi-trucks and larger on hospital rooftops.) These used up to 75hp electric motors weighing 600 pounds and up. These would drive a shaft and would need bearings changed on occasion. Routine "preventative maintenance" stuff. The younger Engineers (in their 30s) would hand me, as the Assistant Chief Engineer, a quote for a $2,500 electric motor. I'd say "Are you telling me we have an air handler down?" "No, but it sounds like it has bearings going bad." "Ok, than get me a quote on the bearings and do a repair." They would sneer at me and say "This company has the money to buy a new motor, just order the motor." This would prompt me to explain the theory of repair vs replace and to explain that our job was to do "preventative maintenance" and keep the ship afloat, not "run to fail" and replace with new. A few hundred dollar one-man bearing repair vs a unnecessary $2,500 motor replacement, plus the manpower of at least 4 guys to remove and replace a 600 pound motor on a rooftop. That's just one example of many.

As to your comment: "I bristle a little bit when people seem to promulgate the stereotype that the older generation believes that the younger generation lacks a work ethic or similar work related motivations or skills." I can only tell you that I lived it as a crew supervisor. Not that there weren't some lazy slugs of my generation, but I noticed that it was like pulling teeth to get younger guys to read manuals and take notes while learning and that their minds didn't seem to grasp troubleshooting and problem solving, or there was a lack of interest to do so. Not all the younger guys, by the way.

I had an Engineer call on the weekend that a reverse osmosis unit was down for the Surgery department. I said "All right, to start with, go into the next room and on the back shelf about chest high is the manual for the unit in a white binder". He sputtered at me: "I don't have time for this manual stuff!" I said: "Well in it is a troubleshooting flow chart and a table of the alarm symbols explaining what the causes could be for each alarm symbol you see on the screen. How do you think myself or any of the other guys learned to work on this system?" He later apologized for his "I don't have time for this manual stuff!" comment and thanked me for helping him to troubleshoot the problem over the phone.

Now, this is really going to sound like an "old guy" observation, but I think one reason why guys my age were better troubleshooters is that when we were coming up, there weren't cellphones and smartphones. Back in my fire alarm days, when I went out into downtown San Francisco, I was on my own. You were as strong as your notes and the manuals and cut sheets you had collected along the way and had in the back of your truck. No cellphones to call your fellow Techs out in the field. No smart phone to get on the net to find answers. And early on, no internet anyway. You were on your own. You had to troubleshoot and problem solve and take notes of what you learned.

End of "old guy" rant. Sorry it was so long and not about guitars at all.
 

GAD

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I had an Engineer call on the weekend that a reverse osmosis unit was down for the Surgery department. I said "All right, to start with, go into the next room and on the back shelf about chest high is the manual for the unit in a white binder". He sputtered at me: "I don't have time for this manual stuff!" I said: "Well in it is a troubleshooting flow chart and a table of the alarm symbols explaining what the causes could be for each alarm symbol you see on the screen. How do you think myself or any of the other guys learned to work on this system?" He later apologized for his "I don't have time for this manual stuff!" comment and thanked me for helping him to troubleshoot the problem over the phone.

And I bet that guy is now the "old guy" in his shop complaining about the young guys doing the same thing you complained about, only about looking up manuals on a website or on an intranet site.

My kids come and ask me how to do X on device Y and I tell them, "Wouldn't it be great if there was a device in your pocket that had near-instant access to the combined knowledge of humanity?" and they grumble and go look it up.

The best part is that they caught me doing some lazy thinking and threw it right back at me. I love when that happens.
 

GAD

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Completely inefficient for production though. "Wave soldering" was the ticket.

2 of our in-shop techs were capable of using scopes to troubleshoot down to component level but didn't have tools for actual repair. Wouldn't have been covered under the Heathkit warranty anyway, they had to use "factory" parts, which meant boards in some cases.

IIRC the 386 computer kits were board-based too, and some of the HERO 2000 robot. Older TV's and audio were still being maintained by owners, especially windows getting the-TV-their-husband-built repaired. Emil our TV guy had a lot of sympathy for them.

The worst was when the picture tubes were NLA. :(

Dreadnut would have loved this discussion. :)

Man, I wanted a HERO 2000.
 

adorshki

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Dreadnut would have loved this discussion. :)

Man, I wanted a HERO 2000.
http://www.theoldrobots.com/hero2k.html

Got Benadryl?
full.jpg

I wonder if the dartboard's for the 'bots?

"Heathkit HERO 2000 and Arm Trainer base latest Gripper opto board - New original":
https://www.ebay.com/itm/304341598575
 

fronobulax

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My kids come and ask me how to do X on device Y and I tell them, "Wouldn't it be great if there was a device in your pocket that had near-instant access to the combined knowledge of humanity?" and they grumble and go look it up.

We were at a park in a remote area of Nebraska. Car in the lot looked like it had a flat but we were not sure what to do about it so did nothing. When we returned the car was gone. Passed it by the side of the road about half a mile away. Area was remote enough that stopping was just what you did so we stopped. The good news is that they were trying to learn how to change a tire from the internet. The bad news is they had about 1 bar of cell service and the video was almost incomprehensible. We gave them an in person lesson and they changed the tire. The thing our experience gave them that the video did not was a sense of how much force was acceptable when loosening the lug nuts and which direction to turn.

This is not really an old guy rant but since I was using networked computers about 8 years before Ethernet was standardized I am very much aware that you don't always have a network available. If it is mission critical and needs network access I have at least thought about Plan B when there is no network. Realistically the only people who need to worry about network access would be those in rural areas and those who choose not to afford paid data plans.
 

chazmo

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Being the self-proclaimed LTG rant-meister, I thought I'd chime in once more in this thread.

I gotta' give props to Martin for what they're doing with their "authentic - aged" guitars. They've put out several different models with this type of relic treatment, and this falls into a different category (to me) than taking chains to a Fender Strat to make it look like so-and-so's axe... But, seriously, look at this Reverb listing and (try to) appreciate the frame of mind that makes this a desirable guitar. It's exactly the same thing I was talking about earlier when referring to classical string instruments being made to look/feel old. I mean, if I had the money, I'd get one... And, I'm sure it's not only me.

 

chazmo

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What might be an interesting discussion is whether or not Guilds thusly "aged" would be popular. My guess is no, but who can say?
 

Rocky

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What might be an interesting discussion is whether or not Guilds thusly "aged" would be popular. My guess is no, but who can say?
Probably not. While we might love them, they're not as iconic across the guitar buying spectrum as a pre-war Martin.

They do a D-28 as well. The Guatamalan rosewood looks nice, but you're not going to fool anybody if you put it side-by-side with something made with vintage Brazillian. https://www.martinguitar.com/guitars/all-guitars/10Y22D28AUTHENTIC1937VTS.html
 
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