Starfire 2 - single or double pick up

[cliff_turner]

Newbie , guild bass question .

I like short scale basses and just realised the starfire is one option.

Saw an add for a second hand Starfire 2 , ? 2015 which is a single pickup.

Looking at the current range , that model doesn’t seem to be around . There’s either the single pick up SF 1 - or the double pickup SF 2 .

Doesn’t seem to be a new SF 2 near where I live , so in terms of sound , I don’t have anything so I can make a comparison to the second hand one .

For me the most important think in a guitar is the feel of it . The classic short scale is the hofner , but never like the feel of it to play . So I’ll go and have a play the SF and see what I think .

The second ( single pick up ) hand one is 1800 ( aud ) vs around 2800 for the new double pick up one . Happy to pay for a new one if it’s going to offer me something significantly more in terms of sounds

So two questions .

1 Is the new twin pick up version going to give me a usably wider sonic palette or is it just adding something that few people rarely use .

2 Is the feel of the new one going to be very similar to the second hand one ( 2015 ) ?

Cheers

Cliff

 

[lungimsam]

1. You haven’t specified but if both of these are Newark Street, Bisonic laden Starfires then the new SF2 with two pickups is the way to go in my opinion. The Newark Street Bisonic pickup SF 1 is the model with only the one Bisonic pickup, mounted somewhere between the f holes. That single pup model is too thin and dull sounding for my tastes. The SF2 with that neck pup position is fantastic.

2. I have an NS Starfire 1 made in 2013 and a 2017 NS Starfire 2, both with Bisonics. They feel the same in the hands to play.

Note: there is a newer SF1 with a harp tailpiece and a split pickup (not a bisonic). I have no experience with that model.

 

[cliff_turner]

Thanks for that . Not sure on the specifics of the models .

This is a picture of the single pickup second hand one I’m looking at

 

[lungimsam]

That’s an NS Starfire 1 in your picture. They sound too thin and dull to me with that pickup position. Worth trying though if it’s local to you. You may like it. It’s a matter of what sound you like.

But the SF2 with its neck pickup will give you a great full bodied tone.

Interesting note:
Out of desperation I added a neck pup to my Starfire 1 and it sounds just like the NS2 now. I say desperation because I didn’t want to get rid of it because it played so well in the hands!!! I put in a neck Bisonic and -pow!!!! Sounds great!! You’ll note the third knob I added as a pickup selector blend knob…

 

[mellowgerman]

Lungimsam makes good points, but I will also note that these reissue Bisonic pickups do sound thinner than the original pickups they were designed after, which is the reason for those basses sounding thinner, not the pickup position inherently. If you got the single pickup version that's available to you locally, you could always swap that pickup out for a Novak BS/DS which is a much beefier-sounding, more faithful recreation of the original Hagstrom Bisonics of the 60s. I think that would really give one of those basses the muscle needed for that pickup position.

My first Guild Starfire bass was a 1966 Starfire I, which had an original Bisonic pickup in that position at it did not lack low end by any means. It sounded really excellent, big, clear, lively.

Another thing worth mentioning is that these are single coil pickups, so they will get 60-cycle hum. If you get the dual-pickup version, the pickups will be reverse wound, reverse polarity (RWRP) and will correspondingly work as a humbucking pair when both pickups are engaged. Some people can't stand the 60-cycle hum noise, so if you are one of them, the dual pickup version may really be better for you. Personally, I think 60-cycle hum is not an issue when you're playing in a live mix with other musicians, but I can understand it being a bit of a nuisance for somebody in the studio. Shielding the bass will help, but it's not as easy with a semi-hollow as it is with something like a Fender Jazz bass.

At the end of the day, if you're able to test out the bass, I would encourage you to do so! They are in my opinion the most comfortable basses out there and, though I love short-scales in general, I don't like the feel of Hofners.

 

[cliff_turner]

That’s an NS Starfire 1 in your picture. They sound too thin and dull to me with that pickup position. Worth trying though if it’s local to you. You may like it. It’s a matter of what sound you like.

Now getting confused . I’d already contacted the seller querying whether it was a 1 or 2 .

They sent me back this link which reports to show a single pickup Starfire 2 , advertised at the price which they say theirs was sold at when it was sold new .

Is there a past model Single pickup Starfire 2 , or am I being sold …..?

 

[Minnesota Flats]

I have both an early NS1 and an early NS2:



I bought the NS1 first and then the NS2 when they became available later (and I wound up hanging onto both). To my ear, they both benefit from having compression, a 10-band EQ and a pre-amp on the pedal board: that really opens up the tone possibilities. I put brass saddles on the NS2 bridge, but both are otherwise stock and strung with D'Addario ECB81M Chrome flats (45-65-80-100)

Others here prefer to augment with on-board electronics. They may chime in with specifics or link you threads which offer their previous observations about circuitry experimentation if you express an interest in same.

 

[lungimsam]

I think the seller may just not be very familiar with these basses.

There is No such thing as an NS SF2 with only one pickup. Unless they removed one of the pickups, in which case you will see a gaping hole where the second pickup is supposed to go and used to be.

Only the NS SF1 has one pickup
NS SF2 always has two pickups.

Also, If that 2799 price is in US dollars for that Newark Street version, that is a total rip off. But I’m guessing you are not in the USA.

 

[cliff_turner]

I think the seller may just not be very familiar with these basses.

There is No such thing as an NS SF2 with only one pickup. Unless they removed one of the pickups, in which case you will see a gaping hole where the second pickup is supposed to go and used to be.

Only the NS SF1 has one pickup
NS SF2 always has two pickups.

Also, If that 2799 price is in US dollars, that is a total rip off. But I’m guessing you are not in the USA.

Thanks for that .

Down in Oz , so Aud , and we’re always more expensive for anything musical .

So , next question . Hopefully final .

Are there different models of Starfire 1 . A new SF 1 down here is in low 1’s , while the link I posted above has a price of over double that .

Cheers

Cliff

 

[lungimsam]

As far as I know Newark Street only produced 3 versions of Starfire I :

1. SF1 in various colors (red, black, may be others)
2. Chris Hillman signature BYRDS SF1 model, which was sunburst.
3. The newest SF1 version is a split pickup (not-Bisonic) model with harp tailpiece and neck binding.

There are also the vintage US made Starfire 1 basses from the 1960’s. Very expensive nowadays, I’m sure, and others can chime in as to any other SF1 I haven’t mentioned.

So that makes 4 versions so far.

 

[chazmo]

Hi Cliff,

Again, welcome aboard, but agreed with the others that the price on that Newark Street bass is (way) too high.

Good luck in the search!

 

[fronobulax]

Random comments to a thread I just noticed.

I would add to @lungimsam 's list the GSR Starfire I which was a special run, not widely available. The 90's reissue dod not include a Starfire I.

Guild never appended a 2 to a model number of a one pickup bass. So your seller is wrong when they claim that is a picture of a Starfire II or Starfire 2.

The question of SF I vs. SF II comes up a lot and it really is personal preference as long as you compare instruments of the same vintage. The late Dan Schwartz who is certainly a contender for owing the most Starfires and using them professionally said he used only the neck PU on his SF IIs about 90% of the time but when he wanted it the bridge PU added enough that it was worth having the SF II. People whose tonal preferences tend towards the bridge in a SF I claim a SF II is the best of both worlds. They aren't wrong. It is a preference.

In addition to price availability needs to be considered. An overpriced bass in Oz now may very well seem like a missed opportunity if you have to wait several years to find another one.

Looking at the Guild website, which doesn't really say anything about availability in Oz compared to the US there are only two Starfire bass models being offered. The Starfire II and Starfire I. The SF II and the old SF I, which is no longer being offered and is what you pictures show are comparable. The new Starfire I cannot be directly compared to either the SF II or the old SF I because the bridge and the PUs are radically different. See pic below of a new SF I. The factory that made them and the MSRP are also different.

So if you want a new bass you probably want to make a decision on price and the specific bridge and PU and not whether there are one or two pickups. If you are going used then you pretty much do not want to include a new SF I in your comparisons.

I tend to favor single PU instruments because the simplicity of the controls means there are fewer things to distract me or that I can try and optimize and I am forced to focus on my skills and not trying to make up for the lack thereof by twiddling knobs. But I cannot recall hearing anyone who replaced a Starfire II with a Starfire I and there are a lot of Starfire I to II conversions so smart money says you won't go wrong with a Starfire 2. To the extent that I can imagine what being in your boots is like, I would make my choice based on affordability and availability.