string tension

[12stringer]

Here is something that I just heard recently...The older a string is, the more tension it needs to bring it up to pitch. This is because as the string ages it stretches and has to be strung tighter to maintain it's pitch (Apparently). So this could explain why my strings were breaking at the saddle after being used for about 5 months...I hadn't changed them because being coated strings (EXP'S) they still sounded good. I also was giving them a wipe with light mineral oil on a rag to keep them sounding lively.
I figure the mineral oil may also lube the string and prevent fret wear?
Every little bit helps.

The "string stretching" is a myth, it's miniscule compared to the more probable cause: the ball end of the string is riding up inside the slots of the bridge pins. If you're breaking strings at the saddle the break angle is probably a little too sharp, what's going on is that's a focal point for metal fatigue just like when you kink a wire several times it breaks at that spot. Or maybe you just have a heavy playing hand, I can relate to that 'cause I do myself occasionally. Lastly I wouldn't allow mineral oil anywhere near my fretboard or anyplace else on the guitar. There're other products with natural oils designed to keep them from drying out, I don't think mineral oil would be good for the fretboard. Don't mean to sound overbearing I just hope this info'll help you get more from your instruments. Check out Frets.com for more insights.

Well I guess it's all speculation then about strings stretching...but as far as light grade mineral oil is concerned, frets.com recommends mineral oil for fretboards ... just have a look here http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Musician/GenMaint/Cleaning/cleaning02.html
I have also read that Bob Taylor recommends mineral oil for fretboards twice per year as well.
On the other hand I have read some other info in the internet that says bore oil for trumpets is the best oil to penetrate and humidify fretboards...When in doubt, ask your luthier, but I think Frets.com would be pretty reliable. :wink:

 

[Bill Ashton]

From the Fall 2009 issue of Wood & Steel, Taylor's promo magazine;

Bob Taylor: "Here's what I like on fretboards: linseed oil. But only
do it once or twice and then forget about it for a couple of years.
then do it again and forget about it for ten years. This offers the
best protection, and you won't experience buildup. Its better than
bore oils or mineral oils that don't actually add a finish that stays
in the pores."

My own caveat: Linseed oil is highly susceptible to spontaneous
heating (ignition) when used with cotton cloths or rags. Should
you use this material, make sure you lay your rags out to air on
a outside rail or the like, which to avoid this hazard.

Myself, I use a drop or two of Gibson Fretboard Conditioner from that little white bottle, on an old t-shirt sleeve (rag), and after wiping it off spread out the rag to air as I don't really know what the oil is.

 

[12stringer]

Thanks for posting that Bill...there is so much on the internet about "what to use"...that article is very helpful. :wink:

 

[adorshki]

[quote="12stringer]Well I guess it's all speculation then about strings stretching...but as far as light grade mineral oil is concerned, frets.com recommends mineral oil for fretboards ... just have a look here http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Musician/GenMaint/Cleaning/cleaning02.html
I have also read that Bob Taylor recommends mineral oil for fretboards twice per year as well.
On the other hand I have read some other info in the internet that says bore oil for trumpets is the best oil to penetrate and humidify fretboards...When in doubt, ask your luthier, but I think Frets.com would be pretty reliable. :wink:[/quote]
I stand humbly corrected..even surprised, although he does give lemon oil first mention. Most important is that issue of keeping the stuff out of cracks. The light aromatic oils like lemon/orange will evaporate slowly while penetrating, thus not leave a buildup. I think mineral oil will evaporate much more slowly. Note also the caution he gives about not letting the stuff soak in around the frets. I believe the issue would be that the wood can absorb too much oil, but it will probably evaporate more quickly with the natural oils, and/or maybe they just wouldn't be absorbed TOO quickly. I'm still very sure you wouldn't want to get mineral oil onto a nitrocellulose finished Guild, thus my reason for extreme caution. WE agree about "every little bit", I'm just going for caution...the idea like you said is that fretboards DO dry out and CAN crack, we're not really humidifying them but replenishing some of the natural oils that would evaporate out over time, but it's really a very small replenishment that's needed. I can't help but believe the natural oils carry the least risk of damage. I use Guitar Honey. Overnite, the fretboard feels brand new again with absolutely no "oily" feel.

 

[12stringer]

Well, I am definitely going to be more sparing with whatever I end up using on the fretboard from now on...my better half has allergic reactions to most aromatic oils but since there is no smell to mineral oil I have been using it. If there is any "natural" oil that is fragrance free I am all ears...
Thanks for your input Al, I totally agree with using caution and am now more alert to the posibility of using too much oil or using it too frequently. As far as the nitro finish, I have not noticed the mineral oil affecting it...but that doesn't mean some kind of damage isn't being done...maybe somone could chime in about that.

 

[kostask]

.... we're not really humidifying them but replenishing some of the natural oils that would evaporate out over time, but it's really a very small replenishment that's needed. I can't help but believe the natural oils carry the least risk of damage. I use Guitar Honey. Overnite, the fretboard feels brand new again with absolutely no "oily" feel.

We had a long thread about this a while ago. I was the conservative one, believing that the closest to the "natural oil" that was affordable and reasonably available was walnut oil, non-polymerized. It should be available at most wood working supply places (I got mine from Lee Valley). There is nothing natural about either mineral oil, or commonly available lemon oil (almost all lemon oil is some combination of petroleum distillates and silicones), as are most of the commercially available guitar treatments/polishes. Walnut oil is the closest we can come to true rosewood oil, which is horrendously expensive. It does the same as described above, and is fairly cheap as well. If you do go this way, make absolutely sure the walnut oil is non-polymerized, as polymerized walnut oil will leave a thin coating behind.

Kostas

 

[Taylor Martin Guild]

What kind of "oll" TMG? I use Kyser lemon oil on mine or Dr. Duck's Ax Wax. Both seem to work fine.

I have a 2 ounce bottle of "Roche'-Thomas Fingerboard Oil'.
I bought it about 12 years ago.
I use it on 6 guitars and there is still about 1/2 of a bottle left.
Once or twice a year per guitar is all they need.
This oil was recommended by my Luthier, who is also a Violin maker.

As far as strings go,
the 2 guitars that I have had sense 1981 are both strung with medium gauge strings.
The necks on them are like new.
The Martin has had a re-fret and the Yamaha is due one.

 

[jimistone]

I have 2 guitars from the early 80's that have always been tuned to pitch.
Not a neck problem with either of them.

Like he said: All mine always kept at pitch, no neck problems and rarely need truss adjusts. F65 was kept strung with lights instead of xtra lights for about 5 years and developed a little bellying. Adjusted truss when re-stringing with xtra lights, took a couple of weeks to "settle in", now stays in tune and bellying is almost gone.
D25 and D40 strung with lights (.012) as per factory specs.

I wouldn't really be concerned If my guitar were strung with x-tra lights or even lights....but it's strung with mediums.
I've never strung an acoustic with mediums before. They really sound good but man that has to be alot of tension on the neck and top!

That specific concern was really what prompted me to post this thread.

 

[adorshki]

HI Jimi, yes we're prone to veering off subject around here. I think you'll find as shown that the general concensus is it's ok to leave 'em at tension with the gauges the guitars were designed for. Guild's website lists string gauges as supplied from the factory, but it's been updated for current models recently. I don't recall ever seeing any models from the 90's thru the Corona period that actually spec'd mediums, but now at least some of the New Hartfords do. Hans Moust our resident expert could probably answer that question about specific models if you ask him.
I've seen references made that the string tension should be relaxed a bit if it's gonna be stored for a while but I don't recall ever seeing a definition of what constituted "lengthy" storage. Please do search some of the recent threads on strings. A lot of people here keep mediums on guitars which were originally spec'd for .012 lights and have no problems. There have been discussions about whether the tops/bracings were designed with specific string tensions in mind. Guilds in general have an excellent rep for strong builds. In my personal opinion the F65 is a delicate guitar by Guild standards.

 

[adorshki]

Well after all this and in the interests of factual accuracy I have to admit that I just found out that my "Guitar Honey" actually contains petroleum distillates (read: mineral oil!) :x
IN my defence I'll explain how the label is tiny white letters on a clear label on a clear bottle requiring a magnifying glass to read, nonetheless in case anybody's still following this subject, there's the facts ma'am. And thanks to Kostas for his suggestion about walnut oil for anyone seeking a truly natural fretboard treatment. Might just have to get me some of that stuff in about another year!( :lol: )

 

[southernGuild]

I too have been convinced.......and I shall search around here for a wee dram of that elusive walnut oil. Only the best for my girls shall suffice! :lol:
goodbye Linseed smell!

 

[12stringer]

Ya...walnut oil sounds good to me too...I used to own a Japanese bamboo flute and the guy who gave it to me said that walnut oil was the best way to keep it from cracking.