TV Jones T-Armond vs Seymour Duncan CS Dynasonics? Anyone been down this Road?

[txbumper57]

I am currently looking at buying a pair of Dearmond type pickups for one or two of my Guitars. One guitar is a Guild X160 and the other is my 2014 Gretsch Black Falcon. I am curious if anyone here has experience with the TV Jones T-armond or Seymour Duncan Custom Shop Dynasonic pickups and If so what were your impressions of the two? I know the Duncan Custom Shops are more expensive than the TV Jones T-armonds but what is the difference in the two besides that? I have seen the dueling Gretsch Jets video on youtube with each type of pickup in identical guitars on different amps but the actual audio on that video sounds like the room was mic'd and not the actual amp cabinets. Just don't want to base my decision off of the Audio in the video

I currently have a set of Factory 2014 Gretsch Dynasonics on the Falcon and they are kind of thin. The neck pickup sounds good but there is no balance with the bridge pickup and the bridge pickup is absolutely awful. Very thin and tinny with about half the tone and volume output of the neck pickup.

The X160 has the original Dearmond 2000 pickups which are good in their own right but just don't have the punch of the originals they were designed after. These are well balanced unlike the factory Gretsch versions. I have heard some people refer to them as "Dyna Lights" which is a good description.

I have TV Jones Classics and a Classic plus in a 3 pickup Strat and Love them so I know the Quality of the TV Jones Brand. I also have Duncan Custom shop Phat Staples in my 2000 Starfire V and love them as well so I am familiar with the quality of the Duncan Custom shop as well.

I am limiting my options to Single coil pickups so the TV Jones Classics in the Dearmond mount are out of the question for these two guitars.

If anyone has traveled this road previously I would love to hear your insight on the situation, Any and all opinions are always welcome. Just trying to get as much info as I can before I make a decision on which ones to go with. I appreciate your time,

TX.

 

[Zelja]

I'd love to have some feedback on this as well. Maybe the Gretsch forums would have more people who had tried both.

Without further info I would go with TV Jones as the other filtertron style pickups of his that I have tried have been very satisfying.

 

[kakerlak]

I bet Walter knows...

 

[txbumper57]

I'd love to have some feedback on this as well. Maybe the Gretsch forums would have more people who had tried both.

Without further info I would go with TV Jones as the other filtertron style pickups of his that I have tried have been very satisfying.

I thought about posting over at The Gretsch forums but I don't know anyone over there. This is home for me and I trust the opinions of the forum members here to be honest and helpful as much as possible. Knowing that we all have Guild as a common ground means everyone hear is just as Crazy as I am if not more. It's nice to be among like minded individuals!:single_eye:

 

[dbirchett]

You would find many familiar "faces" over at gretschpages.com and probably at gretschtalk as well. There was an old post comparing them but it was lost in the great server crash. It's about 12 pages into the Pickups section but is now only a title.

 

[txbumper57]

I wasn't meaning anything derogatory by my earlier comments about not posting over at the Gretsch forums and I am sure there are probably many members of the Guild site that are members of the Gretsch forums as well. They do kind of go hand in hand when it comes to hollowbodies. I'm a Big fan of Strats as well and own quite a few but I don't post in their forums either. This is just my comfort zone.

I did try a search and came up pretty empty, Most of the people decided on TV Jones because they were cheaper than the Duncan Custom shops and they had great experiences with TV Jones in the past. I have had great experiences with them as well but am looking for opinions from a tone point of view before I make my decisions. I imagine Walter will be along shortly to straighten me out! LOL!

 

[Walter Broes]

The Duncans are expensive, but they're the closest to the originals. The TV Jones pickups are great, but they're a little cleaner and more civilized/well behaved than the real thing. They compress a little too, where as the old ones and the Duncans don't, they just "keep going" when you push them. Old ones and Duncans are definitely a little more rude and crude (in the best way) than the TV Jones pickups. If bright, fender-y, and percussive squeaky clean is what you're after, definitely go with the TV Jones ones.

For a modern Gretsch guitar with the stock Dynasonics, I'd leave the neck pickup alone, there's nothing really wrong with it. The 8K output on those works great for a neck pickup - not so cool on the lead pickup. So you have different options there - what I've done at one point was have the modern Gretsch pickup rewound to about 12K, and that worked great. It sounded bigger and bolder, and it balanced well with the stock neck pickup, volume wise. Another option is to find an old original DeArmond pickup for the lead slot, you can still get lucky with those every now and then. Or you could go the Duncan or TV Jones route - but in the case of a new Gretsch, I'd still start out with just the lead pickup, chances are that'll work well enough not to have to spring for the set.

Leaving price out of the picture, my choice would be a vintage or NOS original, Duncans, TV Jones, in order of preference.

 

[txbumper57]

I'd still start out with just the lead pickup, chances are that'll work well enough not to have to spring for the set.

Thank You very much Walter, I appreciate your input and ordering them from Most Original to Non original tone helps a lot.
I don't mind buying the set and actually if I a going to have the guitar down for awhile I would rather go ahead and replace both at the same time. Is there something wrong with the Duncan Neck pickup to Keep the Stock as opposed to replacing it?

Thanks Again,

TX

 

[Walter Broes]

No, not at all! What I mean is that there's really nothing wrong with the stock current Gretsch "Dynasonic", but they use that exact same pickup for a bridge pickup, and it doesn't make for a great set. A bridge pickup that's a little hotter, like an original, a Duncan, or a TV Jones will work great with the stock (current) Gretsch neck pickup.

 

[txbumper57]

Ok, Here is what I have found so far and the specs for each pickup.

Seymour Duncan Custom shop Dynasonics in Black and Gold.
Neck and bridge have the same pole spacing with the Original Dynasonic Length Pole magnets.
Neck and bridge are basically identical except for the height difference.
Neck pickup is 10.99K and the Bridge Pickup is 10.8K, both built by hand and custom wound by MJ at Seymour Duncan.
Price delivered to the front door including Tax and shipping is $450.

TV Jones T-Armond Dearmond mount pickup in Black and Gold.
Bridge pickup has a wider pole spacing than the neck allowing strings to pass directly over the Poles.
The Bridge pickup is wound with a thinner wire for thicker tone and the Neck pickup has shorter pole magnets for "Clarity".
The Neck pickup measures 8.49K and the Bridge pickup measures 11.75K.
Price including shipping and Tax to the front door is $355.74.

I am wondering if the Duncans will be somewhat balanced with those readings being almost the same or if I am going to have the severely unbalanced effect I currently have with the stock units at just a higher output? Decisions, Decisions, Decisions. Hmm.....

 

[txbumper57]

Update: I finally found a decent audio clip of the Duncan Custom shops to compare with the audio clips of the TV Jones on their website. Wildwood guitars on Youtube have a few Gretsch Special Run Black Penguins from 2014 with the Duncan Dynasonics in them. Always love watching their demos of Gretsch and other guitars as they really put them through their paces. The Duncan's Sound Amazing on the demo. Thick, Full, Sparkly, and pack a great punch. Everything I want from a set of pickups of this style. I see where Walter described the TV Jones as Compressing the tone a little bit after comparing them. There is a small difference in the balance of the neck to bridge with the Duncans but it is no where as prominent as with the stock units. I know they are $100 more expensive than the TV Jones but after actually hearing them I definitely think they are worth the extra scratch. Thanks Walter and everyone for the input and info, Looks like I will be ordering a set of Duncans in the morning.:single_eye: We will start with the Falcon and go from there.

Here is the clip form Wildwood with the Duncan Dynasonics on a Penguin if anyone wants to hear them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BciIBv3A2Uk

 

[Guildadelphia]

Just a little heads-up. The Duncan Dynas are a Duncan Custom Shop product, so they will wind them to your personal preference .

 

[txbumper57]

Just a little heads-up. The Duncan Dynas are a Duncan Custom Shop product, so they will wind them to your personal preference .

Ya I got that, MJ has wound several pickups for me in the past on other guitars. Thing is I spoke with her about the Dynasonics and while she will wind them to any spec you want, They way she prefers to make and wind them is from the same template she has used for years and they sound Awesome. I don't want to mess with that MOJO she has going on. One of my instate dealers has a pair in stock and I ordered them this morning. They were wound by MJ as she does all of this dealers custom pickups. Should have them in the next day or two.

 

[Guildadelphia]

Ya I got that, MJ has wound several pickups for me in the past on other guitars. Thing is I spoke with her about the Dynasonics and while she will wind them to any spec you want, They way she prefers to make and wind them is from the same template she has used for years and they sound Awesome. I don't want to mess with that MOJO she has going on. One of my instate dealers has a pair in stock and I ordered them this morning. They were wound by MJ as she does all of this dealers custom pickups. Should have them in the next day or two.

I'd have done the same thing....no reason to mess with perfection.

 

[txbumper57]

I'd have done the same thing....no reason to mess with perfection.

My thoughts Exactly! I'm just smart enough to remove myself from the equation and just dumb enough to get in a lot of trouble! Life is Great. Just dropped the Falcon and the Custom Shop Dynasonics off with my Luthier and should have it back in the next couple of days. I'll update then.:single_eye:

 

[Walter Broes]

Cool, let us know what you think!

 

[txbumper57]

I got the Falcon back today with the Custom shop Dynasonics installed in it. WOW! My tone knobs actually work now. They have a wonderful Fat, thick tone to the neck and all the "spank & twang" you ever want or need in the bridge. I see what you mean now Walter about them getting Nasty in a good way! So much better than the stock setup. I am very pleased with the decision to spend the extra scratch on the Duncans. Clean they are awesome and crisp, with just a hint of overdrive I get some Awesome blues tones, Turn it up the drive little more and you are in full on Rock and Roll paint peeling Bliss. Honestly the new pickups just made this guitar for me. Closest I have heard to the 62 original Starfire III I had with original Dearmonds. As for the TV Jones T-armonds, I played a buddy of mines Gretsch yesterday with the TV's in it and while it did seem more balanced between the two pickups than the Duncans, the TV's had a bit more compression and not as much bite. Great pickups but I like the Duncans better. Thanks for all the info and input and a Special thanks to Walter for describing the choices so clearly! Rock On and Happy Thanksgiving!nthego: