G-41??

Oh, workedinwesterly, I forgot I had this pic taken with someone's cellphone. Not very clear but you can get an idea of what the guitar looks like.

bump

GuildFS4612CE, I'm in the same situation as you are. I recently acquired a FS46CE, which has the 1/4" wide pickup on rails that workedinwesterly mentioned. Mine's got the 3volt preamp with 2 AA batteries.

I haven't gotten to deciding on the tone of the pickup yet, but I'm pretty sure I'm going to be replacing it. The G and D strings are putting out MUCH lower volume than the rest of the strings, and the B string is louder than everything else, packs a really strong punch. So like you, I am looking to start over, fill the bridge, and cut a new slot.

My problem, though, like you, is figuring out what new pickup to put in there. One of the issues I've noticed is that the wiring hole for the pickup is in the center of the saddle slot, not off to the side like most newer undersaddle pickups require. So getting the wiring in there might be tricky. The solution would be to drill a new hole at the side of the slot, but getting that hole to line up with the channel going back to the preamp cavity might be kind of tricky, since this is a solidbody guitar.

The pickups I've been considering are the following:

1) L.R. Baggs LB6. Nice, simple. It's what (I think) I have on my Guild DV52. Just a passive pickup, no preamp, no batteries to worry about (I go into a Countryman DI).

2) L.R. Baggs Ribbon Transducer. Again, nice, and simple. Plus the saddle is not built-in with the pickup, so you can use different materials, or replace the saddle later without replacing the pickup.

3) L.R. Baggs Element. This is what's used in the Anderson Crowdster (look it up if you haven't heard of it - it's the guitar that got me looking into these solid body thinline acoustics in the first place). Problem is, the readily-available Elements come with the preamp built into the endpin, which I don't think would install well into the FS46 series guitars.

So those are my options I'm looking at so far. I like #1 and #2, because the guitar would be passive (I'd dump the electronics on the FS46 and keep the cavity empty) without having to worry about batteries running out. But I don't know which of those two would sound better for the solid body.

#3 is probably not going to work, unless we can get LR Baggs to give us a version with the preamp NOT in the endpin - but then, it would mean having an active preamp, something I'm trying to stay away from personally.

If your luthier comes up with a solution, I'd love to hear it. If workedinwesterly has a suggestion, I'd love to hear it, too. I love the feel of the FS46, and want to make it sound as good as it feels.

jcwu,

i'm not sure what the cavity routing looked like in that guitar, but there's got to be enough room in that cavity for the bridgeplate and pins...so drilling a new pickup wire hole in the corner of the saddle slot shouldn't be a problem. Just to be safe you could drill a tiny hole in that location and see if it just pops thru the bridge.

Thanks, workedinwesterly! I'll give that a shot.

Came across this page demo'ing pickups. Granted, it's aimed at regular acoustics, but the samples of the mag pickups are interesting:

http://www.fingerpick.com/pickups.htm

Interestingly enough, two of the ones I'm most interested in probably won't work well with the FS46's soundhole. The L.R. Baggs M1 looks like it might be too thick (not enough depth in the fake soundhole), and the DiMarzio DP139 Reference Acoustic has a metal mounting rod that needs to extend into the body... unfortunately, there's no body cavity on the FS46 for the rod to go into.

Great Link!! thanks!!

You are correct, the Baggs M1 is a stacked humbucker and it will not fit.

Take a look at a DiMarzio DP138, that's DP138 Virtual Acoustic PU, with volume control...it WILL FIT, I have one for my FS46CE :wink:

Right now, funding permitting, I am considering getting the L.R. Baggs iMix, with Elements UST, and ditching the iBeam that comes with the system (because it was meant to be mounted UNDER the bridge, and we all know there's no roomin the FS46 series for that), and getting a mag pickup and hooking that to the iBeam input. This way I'd have the Elements UST, which has gotten good reviews, plus the mag pu to fatten up the sound if needed, and the iMix mixer will allow me to blend the two signals, as well as make some minor adjustments to each signal (low cut and mid gain for the mag pu, mid gain for the UST).

Oh, I can dream...

Thanks, GuildFS4612CE, for the heads-up on the DP138.

I'm not an electronics expert, but you might want to check with Baggs about your idea...to see if the iBeam input and the iMix mixer will be compatible with your plans...transducers and magnetic pickups are two entirely different animals...

Hoping you find something that works...then maybe I can switch mine over.

I'm not an electronics expert either - but I am somewhat of an advanced Google user! That's how I came up with the idea. Check out this archived thread over at thegearpage.net:

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/archiv ... 36347.html

A post dated in January '08 from walterw says this:

"it also works very nicely if you swap out the element for a good soundhole pickup, which sort of does the same job, namely reading the strings for high-volume no-feedback uses. i use the dimarzio reference acoustic, and have wired up a sunrise for a customer with great results. baggs suggests (of course) the passive m1 for this idea."

In this case, the mag pu was replacing the UST. So I figured, hey, maybe the mag pu can take the place of the iBeam instead!

I'm off to shoot an email to LR Baggs right now, to see what they say. Will report back my findings.

Just got off the phone with support at L.R. Baggs - I have a feeling I *may* have been talking to Mr Baggs himself, the guy was so knowledgeable - not a typical support call guy.

Anyways, he mentioned that there is a version of the iMix, not publicly advertised, that comes with the Elements UST and the M1 magnetic pickup, the only thing different about the kit is that the M1 has a special cable with electronics built in (I forget if it was a capacitor or resistor - someone who's well versed in this area can probably help me out) that simulates a longer cable run, to reduce the brightness a bit. But otherwise he says the iMix's iBeam input will take a magnetic pickup.

We actually got to talking about the FS46CE, and he vaguely recalls having received a call before about the same guitar.

Here's some more information he shared that might be helpful - the remote control for the iMix can be replaced by two 25K audio pots, with a capacitor installed on the pot to act as a high cut filter. This is something I'm sure the luthier would understand - makes only a little sense to me.

So much information to digest - my head hurts!

Here's a review of the iMix/M1/Element combo:

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/for ... ?t=1917161

Obviously we wouldn't be using the M1, but just wanted to confirm that the iMix can take a mag pu.

The guy I spoke to at L.R. Baggs suggested using just an Elements Active without the M1, but the main reason for the suggestion was because the M1 would be too deep for the FS46CE.

workedinwesterly said:

jcwu,

i'm not sure what the cavity routing looked like in that guitar, but there's got to be enough room in that cavity for the bridgeplate and pins...so drilling a new pickup wire hole in the corner of the saddle slot shouldn't be a problem. Just to be safe you could drill a tiny hole in that location and see if it just pops thru the bridge.

Click to expand...

Thank you - you were exactly right. I took off the bridge pins and stuck a flashlight up close - quite a cavity down under there. My only problem left to solve now is how to thread the UST from below the bridge, since most UST's nowadays are made for installing from inside the guitar - they are either connected directly to the endpin, or have a miniplug on the end for plugging into an onboard preamp.

Thanks for your advice - I am one big step closer now to a solution.

Another link, this one looking at different USTs:

http://www.kiphaynes.com/acoustic/

Got my FS4612CE back from the magic luthier...he went with repairing what was present rather than installing from scratch. Took him a great deal of work and he wound up replacing the rosewood saddle as well with a 1/4 inch bone compensated. Suspect it might have split during the removal. Tried it through the real amps in the shop. Actually doesn't sound that bad, especially running it through a pedal first. Mellowed the tone out a bit. Remember that this one doesn't have the TASS system. Still would like modern electronics but he says in that guitar it would still be a huge project. And he simply doesn't have the time right now. I'm grateful for the time he did spend and the more than reasonable charge for his time.

I'll be following the solution you come up with as I still have the TASS in the FS46CE. If yours works out and it's not that complicated an install, then, I'll check in with the luthier on updating at least that one. Projects are great for those who can do their own work, or those in smaller communities where the local guitar doctor is not overwhelmed with work and can't spare the time to handle labor intensive projects.

Thanks for sharing all your findings.

The whole project's going to end up costing an arm and a leg.. I'm going to have to break the project up into steps as the funds become available.

1) Install a mag PU, just so I can play the darned thing! - under $100
2) Plug and recut the saddle so it's not a 1/4" monster anymore - a tad over $200
3) Buy the L.R. Baggs iMix, install UST, connect mag PU to iMix, and find someone who wants to buy the iBeam component - $220 for the iMix, lots of sweat and blood for installing it

That's almost throwing in more than the cost of the guitar to bring it up to speed. I just hope it's worth it by the time I'm done..

With a good mag pickup voiced for bronze strings you may find that you are happy just with that.

After all, it's NOT an acoustic guitar...maybe you don't need the quack! :lol:

I just hope it's worth it by the time I'm done..[/quote]

yea, that's a tough call.

workedinwesterly said:

jcwu said:

I just hope it's worth it by the time I'm done..

Click to expand...

yea, that's a tough call.

Click to expand...

I like how the guitar feels. And, I like Guild. I've found that Martins and Taylors don't really do it for me. I've never been able to quantify it - I started with a Takamine, and it was fine, but when I got the Guild DV52, I knew this was "it". I finally had a GOOD acoustic guitar. No, make that great. In college, my friends each had a Martin and a Taylor - I thought the Martin sounded wimpy in comparison, and the Taylor, while it sounded good, was REALLY hard to play - my left hand always got tired really easily. (This was before I knew to check for things like neck bow, action, etc etc.)

Anyways, so, I like Guilds. And I love the feel of the FS46CE. I love the novelty of the idea. I loved the sound of the Anderson Crowdster, but did NOT like it for aesthetic reasons. The FS46CE appeals to me aesthetically, but needs work to sound good. So... I'm keeping my fingers crossed, hoping that with the right amount of love invested, this little gem will fill what I found lacking in the Crowdster.

Oh, if anyone wants more UST comparisons, here's a pretty extensive test:

http://www.dougyoungguitar.com/pickuptest.htm

It's pretty neat - I listened to a clip of the LB6 on an Olson guitar - it's the same pickup I have on the DV52 - and I immediately heard certain characteristics that really remind me of how my DV52 sounds plugged in. It's almost like the guitar itself doesn't matter as much as the pickup. Or maybe my ears aren't discerning enough. But what I CAN tell is, of the L.R. Baggs USTs, I actually like the LB6 the least. Which is bad, because now I'm thinking of also upgrading the UST on my DV52.

Oh, to have a bottomless wallet....

Continuing on the neverending saga of finding a replacement for the FS46CE's horrible pickup system (sorry, I think I've totally hijacked the original thread!):

Another solution I'm considering now is the D-TAR Wavelength. Supposed to be the same UST as the Baggs Element, but with a 18v preamp instead of 9v to give more headroom. Since I tend to hit the strings kind of hard (the wood around my DV-52's soundhole looks kind of shredded), that'll be a plus. Also, the Wavelength comes with solder points on the PCB board to hook up a second source - it would be a permanent install, though.

Anyways, I decided to give the DiMarzio Acoustic Reference a spin - have an idea of how to make it fit in the "soundhole" of the FS46CE.

The DiMarzio fits fine...the foam inserts flex. The pole pieces will be a bit off center depending where you seat the PU. But they are also adjustable if you have balance issues. The PU is voiced for bronze strings, wound G. The PU comes with clear instructions plus info to contact DiMarzio for different setup info. Good Luck.