D15m has a plywood back???

I am an owner of a 1985 D15 and find it to be a nice instrument. However, it does not sound like most 100% mahogany guitars (high in the mids, woody, and "light") because it is not one. The back wood has a mahogany veneer covering two sheets of ply poplar. This was sort of disappointing to me when I first found out but I was able to embrace this new found truth after picking it back up again with a fresh set of strings

Yes it is a beautiful grainy mahogany used in the top, sides, and back veneer. I didn't know my D15 was a high gloss lacquer looking at the ebay pictures online when eyeing it out so you might want to clarify with the salesman (if buying online) what type of finish it has.

As far as tone goes, think of the boldness of a Guild mixed with the woody/light sound of a mahogany guitar meshed into one. Paradoxical? Quite possibly. Does it sound decent? with a light pick and some fresh strings, my D15 gets at least as much attention as my D55! Should you buy one? .... I would try it first and not buy blindly online.

Woops, this was supposed to be an answer to the previous D15 post. Sorry about that. I'm not sure how to fix it either...

Sefton419 said:

I am an owner of a 1985 D15 and find it to be a nice instrument. However, it does not sound like most 100% mahogany guitars (high in the mids, woody, and "light") because it is not one. The back wood has a mahogany veneer covering two sheets of ply poplar.

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Actually I think if you look very closely you'll find the poplar is only in the middle of two sheets of mahogany. At least that was the method for D-25's. A laminated arched back is in fact more durable and less prone to cracking than a "carved" solid back would be, not to mention considerably more economical.

At one time I owned an '84 D-17M, which was a slightly more expensive version of your guitar. All Mahogany, including the arched back. Beautiful sounding guitar.

Unfortunately, when someone mentions plywood and guitars in the same sentence, we (at least those who are old enough) remember guitars that were not only painfully dead sounding...but painful to play because it was very difficult to set them up properly.

Think of Guilds as having laminated arched backs if that helps coming to terms with the whole plywood/laminate thing. The top of the line, '70s F-50 in maple had a laminate arched back and laminate sides.
Your D-15 is in very good company.

David

Sefton419 said:

Woops, this was supposed to be an answer to the previous D15 post. Sorry about that. I'm not sure how to fix it either...

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Just go back and edit the post and replace it with something as clever as can be!

Joe

Dadaist said:

At one time I owned an '84 D-17M, which was a slightly more expensive version of your guitar. All Mahogany, including the arched back. Beautiful sounding guitar.
Unfortunately, when someone mentions plywood and guitars in the same sentence, we (at least those who are old enough) remember guitars that were not only painfully dead sounding...but painful to play because it was very difficult to set them up properly.
Think of Guilds as having laminated arched backs if that helps coming to terms with the whole plywood/laminate thing. The top of the line, '70s F-50 in maple had a laminate arched back and laminate sides.
Your D-15 is in very good company.
David

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David, only in the pursuit of accuracy, I supect that your D17 also had an inexpensive filler "middle layer". I KNOW that was true of LOTS if not all laminated arched backs. Hans Moust alluded to this fact in a post within the last year. The issue of whether there was any noticable loss of tone from this construction was ripped to pieces in the same thread IIRC, and the general consensus seemed to be: "NOPE." Mostly because better than 90% of a guitar's tone comes from the top anyway. The REAL tone enhancement on the arched back guitars is due to the arching itself. It increases overtones and sustain. Took me a couple of years to figure that out, comparing my two archbacks with the D40. Two different wood combinations and body sizes yet they exhibit very similar characteristics compared to the flatback's characteristics. 8)

adorshki said:

Dadaist said:

At one time I owned an '84 D-17M, which was a slightly more expensive version of your guitar. All Mahogany, including the arched back. Beautiful sounding guitar.
Unfortunately, when someone mentions plywood and guitars in the same sentence, we (at least those who are old enough) remember guitars that were not only painfully dead sounding...but painful to play because it was very difficult to set them up properly.
Think of Guilds as having laminated arched backs if that helps coming to terms with the whole plywood/laminate thing. The top of the line, '70s F-50 in maple had a laminate arched back and laminate sides.
Your D-15 is in very good company.
David

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David, only in the pursuit of accuracy, I supect that your D17 also had an inexpensive filler "middle layer". I KNOW that was true of LOTS if not all laminated arched backs. Hans Moust alluded to this fact in a post within the last year. The issue of whether there was any noticable loss of tone from this construction was ripped to pieces in the same thread IIRC, and the general consensus seemed to be: "NOPE." Mostly because better than 90% of a guitar's tone comes from the top anyway. The REAL tone enhancement on the arched back guitars is due to the arching itself. It increases overtones and sustain. Took me a couple of years to figure that out, comparing my two archbacks with the D40. Two different wood combinations and body sizes yet they exhibit very similar characteristics compared to the flatback's characteristics. 8)

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Yes, my D17M probably did have a 'Hog/Poplar Sandwich back, as does my '79 F40 , which has a Maple/Poplar Sandwich

What I was trying to say...was that it seemed that Sefton419 was bemoaning the fact that his D15's arched back was in reality plywood....very nice plywood, but plywood none the same. And that this guitar, though it was a base model in the line, had the same construction as the most expensive F50.

Personally, I like the volume of an arched back Guild, and the form accents, especially in Maple the curves of the guitar. It's a very attractive, not so Big Blond.

David

Dadaist said:

What I was trying to say...was that it seemed that Sefton419 was bemoaning the fact that his D15's arched back was in reality plywood....very nice plywood, but plywood none the same. And that this guitar, though it was a base model in the line, had the same construction as the most expensive F50.
Personally, I like the volume of an arched back Guild, and the form accents, especially in Maple the curves of the guitar. It's a very attractive, not so Big Blond.
David

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Yeah, I had to be careful there because you might have the guitar that was an exception to the rule. Was more intending to support your point that "laminated" ain't neccessarily bad and certainly doesn't have the negative connotation "plywood" does. Also there're still folks who come in thinking the lams are all one wood, so wanted to point out the true construction for those who may not know it yet.
And you may notice I have my own little blonde sweetheart, in my sig...

It has also been mentioned on a few occasions that the middle layer consisted of maple. Anybody else remember that or any truth to that? Hans?

Ridgemont said:

It has also been mentioned on a few occasions that the middle layer consisted of maple. Anybody else remember that or any truth to that? Hans?

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Yes, poplar or soft maple.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl

Laminates can be a strategic decision when used with solid other parts.

I the case of an arched back, in which the job is to be reflective, it makes sense to press the shape using laminates. It would be prohibitively expensive to carve the back. Even Santa Cruz Guitar Company found that out with their early model F guitars.

Some very high end Classical guitars sometimes used two-layer sides with the inner layer at 90 degrees. I assume to avoid cracks and add stability.

In my view what makes laminates less desired is that often the rest of the guitar suffers from even more cost-cutting measures in materials and construction. But I don't see that with the Guilds.

Gibson J-45's and Hummingbirds, etc have had various combinations of laminate sides with solid backs, or vica versa.

Part of the stigma I think comes from some early Japanese Martin clones (like Takamine) who routinely used some laminates in their copies of all solid Martin models.

Sometimes laminates are used because guitars get shipped all over the world to various climates. Certainly the all solid wood Brazillion guitars didn't fare so well in dry North America in the sixties/seventies.

However, once a problem does develop in a laminated plate on a completed guitar, it can be very hard to satisfactorily repair.

Again, I don't think that has been any problem with Guilds or Gibsons.