Vintage Guild Stratford A-350 archtop serial number question

Steve Hoffman

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I have had a minty Stratford A-350 sunburst for a few years. The serial number is 8121. It was sold to me as a 1958, due to the number but taking a look at the Guild label inside I can see that it is oval, with the logo on top and the "Hoboken, New Jersey" line without "U.S.A" at the bottom, making this (according to Hans' fine book) a 1961-62 era guitar. But the serial number! Way wrong for 1961 era, too low.

Is this another example of a wacky "small" number that was sometimes used at the end of the 1950's that doesn't correspond to the usual numbering system?

The number 8121 is on the oval label and the same number stamped (faintly) into the back of the headstock. It has a post-1958 rounded Lucite pickguard with the "Guild" name and pickguard outline in gold.

So, is this just one of those flukes in their numbering system? Any idea why they did this numbering variation? I'd sure like to know!

Any information would be appreciated. I doubt they sold many of these all-acoustic archtops and this one looks like it's never even been played. Sure is pretty.

Thanks!!
 

SFIV1967

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Well, Hans can for sure answer but I would guess it was build in 1958 but somehow never finished and sold, and when they finally got an order for it in 1961 (or whatever time) they finished it, put the new oval label inside and wrote the number on it which they found on the headstock.
Or it was re-worked between 1958 and the time it received the oval label. But again, let's wait for Hans to better explain. He might have this number in his database.
Ralf
 

hansmoust

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Steve Hoffman said:
I have had a minty Stratford A-350 sunburst for a few years. The serial number is 8121. It was sold to me as a 1958, due to the number but taking a look at the Guild label inside I can see that it is oval, with the logo on top and the "Hoboken, New Jersey" line without "U.S.A" at the bottom, making this (according to Hans' fine book) a 1961-62 era guitar. But the serial number! Way wrong for 1961 era, too low.

Is this another example of a wacky "small" number that was sometimes used at the end of the 1950's that doesn't correspond to the usual numbering system?

First of all, these 'smaller' serial numbers from the late fifties do fit in the regular serial number system. It's just the physical size of the numbers stamped into the back of the peghead that make 'm stand out as a separate series; it's not a separate series by themselves!
Your guitar was started before that took place and consequently it should have the 'regular' big digits imprinted into the back of the headstock

The number 8121 is on the oval label and the same number stamped (faintly) into the back of the headstock. It has a post-1958 rounded Lucite pickguard with the "Guild" name and pickguard outline in gold.

This is another good example of how things were done at the Guild factory. Maybe you should first read the following text, which I've posted many times already but it easier to post it again, than referring to an earlier thread:

Guild guitars were made in batches of 6, 12 or 24 etc. From a manufacturing standpoint it was easier to make them in batches because of the change of tooling necessary to produce the different models. When the superstructures were completed they were serial numbered, which took place in the 'finishing' dept. After that the finish was applied and the guitars were hung to dry. After sufficient drying they would be buffed and placed in racks, where they would stay till an order came in. Obviously, if they started production they already had orders, but not always for the complete batch. Only the guitars they had orders for (plus the guitars that could be put in inventory because they were ordered on a regular basis) would be taken to 'final assembly', where the superstructure would get all the necessary parts to become a musical instrument and where it would be set up. Now the order in which they were taken from the racks was random, so it was possible for a higher serial number to come through 'final assembly' before a lower number. A lower serial number could stay on the racks for a very long time while a later serial number would already be hanging on a dealer's wall.

So the serial number on a guitar doesn't automatically tell you when a guitar was completed and in some cases this explains some of the quirky stuff you might come across.


So, if your A-350 has # 8121 stamped into the back of the peghead, it means that it was serial numbered and finished ( finished as in lacquered) during 1958. Consequently it should have all the typical superstructure specs. of an A-350, which would include a rosewood fingerboard and block inlays with corners that are 'rounded off'.

Since you say that the instrument has an 'oval' label it means that the instrument wasn't completed any earlier than 1961 and consequently it should have the parts and hardware of a later guitar. In your case that would mean gold engraved Kolb Deluxe tuners w. 'diamond' shaped buttons, a Lucite pickguard with the Guild 'Chevron' and gold outline that's painted black from the backside and probably a metal truss rod cover. If the guitar had been completed during 1958 it would have had gold plated Kluson Deluxe tuners w. metal buttons, a laminated black pickguard and a '50s style laminated truss rod cover.

If the guitar had been started after 1960, it would have had an ebony fingerboard with square mother of pearl block markers!

If what I've described above is what you have, then we're looking at a guitar that was started during 1958 and not finished earlier than 1961. It's even possible that it was completed at a later date but I need to see the hardware to be able to say anything definitive about that.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl
 

Steve Hoffman

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Hans,

Thanks very much for the additional info. My pics of this guitar vanished when my 2 year old daughter poured milk on my laptop last year. Sorry.

The guitar does indeed have a rosewood fingerboard and block inlays with corners that are slightly 'rounded off'. It does say in your book that this practice stopped in 1956 though. That confused me. But, my block inlays look like the ones on the neck in the far right photo on page 24 of your book. In other words, third photo over from the left. Slightly rounded on rosewood.

The tuners are indeed the later gold engraved Kolb Deluxe with the nifty 'diamond' shaped buttons.

If it helps, it has a heel cover exactly like the one in the top right photo on page 43 of the book.

So, all that being said, one would still consider this a 1958 guitar, correct? In other words, if I wanted to eventually sell it, would it be correct to call it a '58 vintage? I wouldn't want to mislead anyone.

Amazing that this lacquered guitar hung around the shop for so many years unfinished. I guess the call for an acoustic archtop was pretty slim at that time.

Again, the information was much appreciated.
 

hansmoust

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Steve Hoffman said:
The guitar does indeed have a rosewood fingerboard and block inlays with corners that are slightly 'rounded off'. It does say in your book that this practice stopped in 1956 though. That confused me. But, my block inlays look like the ones on the neck in the far right photo on page 24 of your book. In other words, third photo over from the left. Slightly rounded on rosewood.

Take a look at the 'scale lenth' section on page 22; that explains the rosewood board on your A-350 from 1958.

So, all that being said, one would still consider this a 1958 guitar, correct? In other words, if I wanted to eventually sell it, would it be correct to call it a '58 vintage? I wouldn't want to mislead anyone.

As far as I'm concerned it's a 1958 guitar, but there's more to the story; listen to this:

I was going over the original Guild logs and I found a 'Re-do' entry for your A-350 with serial # 8121. It turns out that the guitar was refinished at the factory, so this explains the lapse before the instrument was finally completed and it also explains the 'faint' serial number stamped into the back of the headstock.

Now if the guitar was refinished a couple of years later, which it was, it should have a different style sunburst from what it originally was in 1958.
I happen to have a photo of # 8122, which is clearly from that same batch of guitars and as you can see it has a rather dark style sunburst:

A350.jpg


I would assume that the finish on # 8121 is a different style sunburst with probably more red in it.
Is that correct?

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl
 

Steve Hoffman

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Hans,

Great info, thanks. Yes, my A-350 has more red in the sunburst. In fact, the re-do they did is perfect, still new looking after all of these years. Whoever they sold it to sure didn't use the thing. The frets are pretty new as well. The heel cap has shrunk though.

I wonder why they refinished it? Did a customer want sunburst and it was originally blonde or something? Or did the years sitting around damage the original finish in some way? Interesting. I now understand about the neck inlays. And the long scale! A leftover neck, sneaky.

*Hans, while I have your ear, my 1957 Guild Johnny Smith Award has a serial number of 5296. Can you tell me anything about it from the records? Anything at all? They could not have sold many of these that year. Can you tell how many were made or anything else about this particular guitar? I got it from Mandolin Bros. in 2006. Thanks very much.

It's great having the world's foremost expert on Guild Guitars right here on this forum!
 

hansmoust

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Steve Hoffman said:
I wonder why they refinished it? Did a customer want sunburst and it was originally blonde or something? Or did the years sitting around damage the original finish in some way?

It could be anything; the logs do not mention the reason.

I now understand about the neck inlays. And the long scale! A leftover neck, sneaky.

Just using up old stock till they ran out. All the A-350s from that same batch that I've seen had those necks.

Hans, while I have your ear, my 1957 Guild Johnny Smith Award has a serial number of 5296. Can you tell me anything about it from the records?

The logs that I have do not go that far back. I have some stuff from that period but I do not have info on individual instruments other than the info that I've gathered myself after seeing these instruments.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl
 

Steve Hoffman

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Just played this Stratford again recently. Such a nice, meaty neck. So different from my Artist Awards. Hard to say which I like better..
 
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Hi, this seems like it might be a good place to get a couple questions answered. I have an A 350 sunburst serif number 4573 I would like to post a pic of the label but I don't see where I can do that. It does say Guild guitars New York, NY. Can anyone tell me how this might affect quality of construction or value. It's been played, but is in very good condition with a minor few cosmetic issues. Thanks!
 

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Hi, this seems like it might be a good place to get a couple questions answered. I have an A 350 sunburst serif number 4573 I would like to post a pic of the label but I don't see where I can do that. It does say Guild guitars New York, NY. Can anyone tell me how this might affect quality of construction or value. It's been played, but is in very good condition with a minor few cosmetic issues. Thanks!

Welcome. Serial dates to 1957. Host the pics somewhere else and link to them here. Not sure what your question really is. Guild only had one factory at the time and there are generally no times when Guild construction quality was significantly better or worse than other times.. There were some label variations but no one I can recall collects the label variants. So the value is going to be almost completely determined by condition. I'd see what the guitar Blue Book (which I do not have) says and go from there. Having a case that fits may not effect value directly but may effect your ability to sell it.
 

AcornHouse

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Hi, this seems like it might be a good place to get a couple questions answered. I have an A 350 sunburst serif number 4573 I would like to post a pic of the label but I don't see where I can do that. It does say Guild guitars New York, NY. Can anyone tell me how this might affect quality of construction or value. It's been played, but is in very good condition with a minor few cosmetic issues. Thanks!
Hi John, Welcome! I am the current proud owner of the #8121 A-350 that the rest of this thread is about.
While your label says NY, with your serial number being firmly from ‘57, what most likely happened is that they were using up the old labels in the new Hoboken plant. This is not uncommon with Guild.
As far as quality, have no fears. As Frono said, there are no real “bad” Guild eras, and the 50s era Guilds, whether from Hoboken or NYC, are highly coveted.
To post a pic, you need to host it on an external site, and link to it here. Here’s a FAQ all about this. (Note that Photobucket has changed their methods (again), and may be a viable option now, albeit with a Photobucket stamp on every pic.)
I hope you do manage to post some pics, in this thread, or you can start a new one. I’d love to see a brother to mine! (You can see my pics at http://letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?197602-NGD-%9158-A-350-Stratford )

Hans Moust may be along to provide further info on your guitar. He is the leading expert on Guilds, and corrects any misstatements any of us make.
 
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