Newark Street vs. '67 - An Observation

I'm going out on a limb here but...

Having lived with my Newark Street for almost a year, and knowing that my opinions can and do change, my opinion today is that sonically the Newark Street and my '67 Starfire are different beasts and I have a strong preference for the '67. If I could only use one word it would be "thin". There is something that the '67 has that the Newark Street is lacking. To my ears, with identical amp settings, the '67 is hotter/louder. The missing something often occurs at the start of a note and I think it is increased mid-range although I am not certain. Tangentially, since I practice in a room with a dimmer, they both seem to pick up the same amount of hum. I also think the tone control has a greater impact on the sound of the '67 than it does on the NS. If I work at it I can get them to sound very similar by tweaking the tone but the sound I prefer at this moment comes from the '67.

In addition to the PUs, the differences I am noticing could be due to the right hand position, the PU position and/or the strings - D'Addario flats on the '67 and TI Jazz flats on the NS. The right hand over the PU on the '67 may be the reason it sounds louder.

The NS is in no danger of losing its place in the stable because I don't worry about it when playing outside of the house, but I do find when they are both in the rack and I need to practice, I am grabbing the '67 more and more.

I would not expect them to sound the same since one has a neck pickup and one has a bridge pickup. In my experience, I keep the tone knob on zero and the volume knob on 10, for both of those basses/pickups. The Newark Street sounds pretty good to me in that regard. Not identical to a 60s SF1 w/neck pickup, but close. maybe even "very close." For what it is I think the Newark Street SF1 sounds great.

The expectation that they could sound the same comes from speculation that the NS PU would be a viable alternative for the Bisonic in a world where there are no more reasonably priced Dark Stars or Bisonics and there is not a lot of experience with the other alternatives. (Who else besides Curtis and mellowgerman has experience with both Curtis' PU and a bisonic? Extra credit if the experience was in a Starfire.) There was also discussion concerning how well the NS could stand in for a vintage Starfire, assuming a vintage was unobtainable. For example, do we advise someone to buy a NS now with $1000 or tell them to keep saving until they get in the $2500 range and go vintage or scour the universe looking for bargains and fixer-uppers? So those were the questions in my mind.

Curiously, I run the NS at 9 and 9 unless the lights are on and I can't stand the hum. The tone on the '67 runs from about 4 to 9 depending on my mood and the lights and the closest sonic match between the tow occurs for me with all tone at zero.

Thanks for the post, Frono. It's pretty much in line with what we heard on your sound clips you were nice enough to post a while back.

Everyone has to make their own decision as to sound and risk of damage to a bass when playing out.

And this is why my house will have no dimmer switches. ;-)

mavuser has it right - the different pickup positions will make a huge difference in the sound, more so than hand position or string type. The NS PU might sound very similar to a Bisonic, it's impossible to say without placing it so as to read the same section of string, same deflection, etc. But of course if someone wants a NS SF, there's only the one pickup position available.

(I have the GSR SF-I and personally I prefer the bridgeward position to the neck, which I find mud-prone, but houses for corsets and all that.)

Zero experience with any vintage models, other than a borrowed M85 I played once a long long time ago.
All I can say is I'm very happy with my NS Starfire. I find that for my purposes I get plenty of variety from the single bridge pickup. Most of my playing is alt country/garage rock. I use mostly fingers but go to a pick sometimes when needed. I'm running Labella 460FL flats thru an old 71 Silverface Bassman head and an old Carvin single 15 4 ohm cab. I get plenty of bottom but no mud unless you purposly eq the amp that way. When strung with rounds and thru a more modern amp it can sound very modern and high fi. Its a very well made instr and worth the $s IMO compared to the new model competition(Gretsch, Ibanez) esp when you consider the included HS case. Better pickup than the Gretsch or Ibbie models and the workmanship is on par with Gibson IMO.

The plot thickens. I got some quality time with a '66 sweet spot belonging to guilded last weekend. It had TI-Jazz Flats which are also what is on my Newark Street.

The '66 seems like a transitional model between the '67 and the NS, in that it has characteristics of both. The 66 and 67 both have "something" that the NS lacks. That something is probably mid-range but the vintage PU sounds fuller. The '66 and NS both have a lot more variation in tone as the right hand moves from the neck to the bridge. The sound gets fuller on both basses as the plucking gets closer to the PU.

Personally I don't like the sound of the '67 at the bridge as much as elsewhere, so I'm inclined to believe that a sweet spot bass is somewhat more versatile because both the 66 and NS sound different enough that I will deal with the difference in feel to get the tone.

I'm probably the only person on the planet who cares but I may be one of the few who have logged at least a couple of hours on the variations.

"I'm probably the only person on the planet who cares but I may be one of the few who have logged at least a couple of hours on the variations."

Nope. It's petty cool to read that.

I still haven't gotten to try one of the NS starfires :'(
I'll be in NYC on Thursday for a gig and I suppose I could try to duck into Rudy's Music to try the one they have there, but I imagine it's strung with round wounds.... which would nullify the experience in my mind.

Mellow, I see you are playing at the Hill Country BBQ in Brooklyn on Thursday. That place is awesome! And the owners are family friends. 8:30 is a little early for me for downtown Brooklyn but I'll try to cruise out if possible. Thanks for the heads up. Hope your tour is going well.

Could not make it to Mellows show last night, unfortunately. didn't even come close. Hope to catch them next time. some cool tunes on his website though.

Hey Mavuser, sorry i didn't catch your comment sooner, we'll be at the Hill Country in Manhattan on June 11th and then Deep Tanks Studio in Staten Island on the 14th. Hopefully by then we'll have our new album with us, which we're recording later this month and which will actually feature me on bass (our current cd was recorded when the band was still a 2piece without bass)

Ooo by then i should have my 1967 starfire bass too!

mellowgerman said:

Ooo by then i should have my 1967 starfire bass too!

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Tease!

Is this the one that has been in the background for a couple of years or something not previously discussed?

mellowgerman said:

Ooo by then i should have my 1967 starfire bass too!

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nice! Although I was looking forward to hearing your Novack BS/DS'd...solid body of some sort? How did that work out?
also though u had a 66 SF from the YouTube video. I suppose that one has moved on? In any event, 67 is a great year for that bass. Obviously.

6-11 show in manhattan should be doable. Any other forum members interested in hitting that? I recommend the short ribs, and the banana pudding.

Frono, the 67 starfire that I will be acquiring is the one (in particularly remarkable cosmetic shape) that a good friend has been holding for me for about 3 or 4 years now. With my recent tax return I'll finally be able to snag it up!

Mavuser, the NYC gigs are probably some of the only ones where I likely won't have the option to bring both basses... it all depends on whether we take a bus, train, or the band's truck into the city. My '66 starfire was sold a few years back to a friend of LTGer Guilded. Here's my current "workhorse" bass with the Novak bisonic

Mello, cool on all fronts. I am familliar with Guilded's bass through this forum. The one I was thinking of was actually your Dearmond bass with a Dark Star. I just now got that all straight! guess those vids are several years old at this point. Anyway the Novak bass looks and I imagine sounds pretty killer. how loud do you have to play it to wake that dog up? pretty loud i bet. ha. and let me know if you need anything in New York, seriously. It can be a headache compared to your other stops, im sure. will be worth it though. u probably only need one bass. although a 60s starfire would certainly get the attention of at least a few people in the place, just do whatever is easiest. The venue is relatively close to both train stations, and driving/parking at night in New York is not nearly as bad during the daytime. can still suck though on a bad day, depends where you are coming from and what time.

mavuser said:

Guilded's bass

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I think Guilded's only SF bass is one he found and restored from a coating of white(?) krylon masquerading as a finish. I played it a few weeks ago and is the source of my '66 sweet spot vs. '67 neck vs. NS comparisons. I believe mello's '66 went to a friend of Guilded's, not Guilded.

Mello - isn't it nice to have friends who will hold things for you?

Yup Guilded's personal bass is a different one; the one I used to own was purchased by a buddy of his. It was a killer bass but I had sound experiments in mind that I didn't want to perform on that all-original vintage gem... at the time I couldn't really afford to keep it AND buy a good modification-platform bass, so off it went. Still miss her, but I don't regret it considering all the other awesome basses that I've had the privilege of playing since.

This 1967 Starfire will be a keeper because it's sort of being passed on to me from a friend and carries a great deal of sentimental value... not to mention it has been very well taken care of and looks like it's no more than decade old. I'll be sure to post a review/photo thread once I get to spend some time with it. Very thankful to my friend for holding onto it for me until I had the funds. Grateful to have the opportunity to snag it up!

The black Dearmond Starfire with Dark Stars was one of my experiment basses... tried a bunch of mid-notch filter stuff and so on. Sounded great but after the '66 Starfire bass it just didn't feel like the real deal... finish, neck dimension, string spacing, weight, frets, etc.

The Novak bass started its life as a Yamaha... I actually got it in a package deal with a vintage Oliver b120 tube amp. I didn't want the bass because it was trashed and played horribly but the guy didn't want to separate the two, so I took it in with the intention of giving it the best setup I could and flipping it for $75 or something like that. Turns out, it set up SUPER well. The neck/frets are great and the bass in general is very resonant. So I replaced the hardware, took out the stock pickups, and put in the Novak pickup. It's an incredible instrument now and sort of a no-sweat beater, great for scary touring situations or for situations where the band would be taking a plane (wouldn't want to risk taking a vintage starfire in that scenario!). Not to mention I dig the gnarly weirdo bass look

The pooch is Calvin. He's sort of the band dog. At 4 years he's not vintage but he's got plenty of character. Sort of stopped growing early on and never left puppyhood. A fine K-9, that Calvin!

Our recent gig in Brooklyn was a lot of fun and we stayed with my buddy Andrew in CT. He was nice enough to drive us into the city and deal with all the parking hassles. A fine human, that Andrew!

Not sure what the game plan will be yet for the Manhattan gig. Still have to talk it over with the boys